Waiting to Shoot IR for a Bigger Pay Day (page 40)

Author	Post
DiamondJackman Deactivated User Straight From My Brown Balls, Using Good Pussy 501 Posts 10/15	Posted - May 17 2016 : 1:01PM So you're telling me you know more that Alison Tyler about her sexual preferences? You know what get's her off in bed more than she does? [Link]
misspornUSA Senior Member I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13	Posted - May 17 2016 : 2:26PM ^ I've never claimed to know what gets Alison Tyler off. [Link]
misspornUSA Senior Member I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13	Posted - May 17 2016 : 2:43PM ^^I've been arguing that we don't know what a pornstar's actual sexual preferences are. I've further argued that the sexual preferences of a pornstar in her real life tend to be irrelevant to what she shoots for money. How any of that led you to conclude that I'm claiming special insight into Alison Tyler, I really don't know. Edited by - misspornUSA on 5/17/2016 2:45:49 PM [Link]
Rosco Fuji Deactivated User On the licking stick, Mr. Magic Dick! 3309 Posts 2/09	Posted - May 17 2016 : 2:49PM misspornUSA wrote: Rosco Fuji wrote: Anal and I/R and 2 way different issues in porn and dodging anal isn't a controversial topic. So, again apples and oranges. Click to expand The approach is the same, regardless of whether we are discussing first anal, first IR, first DP, first IR anal, etc. The level of controversy is besides the point. Click to expand The controversy is THE point. [Link]

misspornUSA Senior Member I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13	Posted - May 17 2016 : 3:18PM ^No, money and career are. [Link]
Melvyn Senior Member 2797 Posts 12/12	Posted - May 17 2016 : 7:48PM DiamondJackman and Rosco Fuji, how much do you think Blacked has invested in their exclusives? Is there any other brand you would speculate has invested MORE than they have in 1st time IR? I understand the point mpUSA is getting at. Her perspective is rooted in facts and business. The bottom line. You guys have persistently inserted subjectivity and emotion into this. This is the impasse, and you guys keep running in circles over the same bs. You could call me, LCF, mpUSA or the other rationalists in here cynical, but the irony is we have better faith in the performers and the industry and the consumers. Arguing against us really seems to advocate for the misanthropic viewpoint. I keep seeing the OP try to stick with facts, but detractors keep rebutting with feels. "But isn't that wrong? But arent't they bigoted? But shouldn't we object?" Unless you truly feel there is a serious grievance here, why do you insist on injecting subjective objections? Why insist on inserting feelings into this? Think how this ironically clashes with the IR becoming too PC debate. In that topic, the "feels" crowd keeps condemning black performers who performed the way they wanted to, and they praise Blacked - which is under the control of a white pornographer. The "feels" crowd condemns the black performers and praises the white controller. Now if that wasn't ironic enough, then we get to this issue of pay. The rationalist crowd seems comfortable giving performers, producers, and consumers the benefit of the doubt - the benefit that they are not bigoted or corrupt or sexist or racist. But once again, the "feels" crowd stridently condemns this practice of paying any extra for a performer's 1st IR. So shouldn't they be condemning Blacked? I simply cannot see how you can have it both ways. This is why I have tend to retain a dispassionate perspective on the matter. I highly disagree with condemning Blacked or the conventional business practice as it is. You simply cannot do it without condemning yourself, that is if you're supportive of IR. Just trying to reassess everyone's positions here. There's been too much speculation about who is the witch and what are their motivations. Look at the bottom line. Do you feel strongly about this less than marginal disparity in one time only pay bonuses? If so, how do you feel about Blacked? Enough to condemn them? If so, how do you reconcile that with the fact that so many POC consumers/fans have been praising their direction? Or if you feel strongly about the pay issue, and you are a fan of Blacked, but you don't feel strongly enough to condemn them, how do you reconcile that? I can't come to any conclusion other than it is what it is. The practice isn't especially bad nor especially good. Instead of witch hunting, try understanding why it is the way it is first. Because if you never understand it in the first place, how can you ever expect to offer a better viable alternative? I'm sure there are plenty in the industry who agree it's not ideal or perfect. But with no alternatives, how can we judge it? We need to get past judging character and judging the facts. This is why I appreciate the OP's inquiry and objectivity in trying to progress this discussion. Without looking at it cynically and rationally, you go down a slippery slope of condemnation and finger pointing. It's counterproductive. I think the fact that both Mimefreak and Jules Jordan have chimed in on this topic, and both were cynical or sarcastic about it means both black and white purveyors of IR do not respect the implications that they are the bad guys. The industry is not bad, they are only trying to meet the demands of the consumers. I'm sorry if this is dragging, but the flow chart of this is really simple: If you condemn the practice, you're condemning the industry, and if you're condemning the industry, then you must be condemning the consumers, which is to say you're condemning the overall public. The kneejerk response is to read about some extremely tiny disparity and say, well it's unequal therefore it's unconscionable and must be condemned. Take a step back and look at the bigger picture, and you'll find what drives it is not motivated by hatred or discrimination. Step back far enough and you can see the motivations are likelier to be entirely the opposite. Look at who are especially into IR in the first place. It is consumers who are driving all of this. I'm sure the overwhelming majority are the furthest thing from racist. Suggesting porn fans especially interested in IR are racist is no more logical than suggesting fans who especially want to see boy-girl are sexist. There's high demand for 1st IR, otherwise no one would ever pay more for it. No one. There's high demand to see a female performer's first B/G. In no way does that suggest people are sexist. If they were, who would their sexism be favoring? The guy? I mean does anyone here really care about guys 1st's lol. Anyone? If it is sexism, which is extremely dubious, wouldn't it be a sexism favoring the woman? After all, it is her 1st B/G which people care about. edit: "shouldn't be object?" -> "shouldn't we object?" Edited by - Melvyn on 5/23/2016 2:07:31 AM [Link]
Canadian_Cindy Deactivated User 1102 Posts 2/15	Posted - May 17 2016 : 8:01PM There are enough women having sex with black men in porn to keep anyone busy 24/7 if they never sleep and have no outside life. So, trying to go to war over girls that are not having sex with black men on camera seems like a waste of time when you can just sit back, relax, and enjoy the massive amounts of great "IR" porn being produced these days. Girls can do what they want with their career or bodies. Porn fans have a hard time catching up with that . [Link]
Rosco Fuji Deactivated User On the licking stick, Mr. Magic Dick! 3309 Posts 2/09	Posted - May 17 2016 : 10:00PM Melvyn wrote: DiamondJackman and Rosco Fuji, how much do you think Blacked has invested in their exclusives? Is there any other brand you would speculate has invested MORE than they have in 1st time IR? I understand the point mpUSA is getting at. Her perspective is rooted in facts and business. The bottom line. You guys have persistently inserted subjectivity and emotion into this. This is the impasse, and you guys keep running in circles over the same bs. You could call me, LCF, mpUSA or the other rationalists in here cynical, but the irony is we have better faith in the performers and the industry and the consumers. Arguing against us really seems to advocate for the misanthropic viewpoint. I keep seeing the OP try to stick with facts, but detractors keep rebutting with feels. "But isn't that wrong? But arent't they bigoted? But shouldn't be object?" Unless you truly feel there is a serious grievance here, why do you insist on injecting subjective objections? Why insist on inserting feelings into this? Think how this ironically clashes with the IR becoming too PC debate. In that topic, the "feels" crowd keeps condemning black performers who performed the way they wanted to, and they praise Blacked - which is under the control of a white pornographer. The "feels" crowd condemns the black performers and praises the white controller. Now if that wasn't ironic enough, then we get to this issue of pay. The rationalist crowd seems comfortable giving performers, producers, and consumers the benefit of the doubt - the benefit that they are not bigoted or corrupt or sexist or racist. But once again, the "feels" crowd stridently condemns this practice of paying any extra for a performer's 1st IR. So shouldn't they be condemning Blacked? I simply cannot see how you can have it both ways. This is why I have tend to retain a dispassionate perspective on the matter. I highly disagree with condemning Blacked or the conventional business practice as it is. You simply cannot do it without condemning yourself, that is if you're supportive of IR. Just trying to reassess everyone's positions here. There's been too much speculation about who is the witch and what are their motivations. Look at the bottom line. Do you feel strongly about this less than marginal disparity in one time only pay bonuses? If so, how do you feel about Blacked? Enough to condemn them? If so, how do you reconcile that with the fact that so many POC consumers/fans have been praising their direction? Or if you feel strongly about the pay issue, and you are a fan of Blacked, but you don't feel strongly enough to condemn them, how do you reconcile that? I can't come to any conclusion other than it is what it is. The practice isn't especially bad nor especially good. Instead of witch hunting, try understanding why it is the way it is first. Because if you never understand it in the first place, how can you ever expect to offer a better viable alternative? I'm sure there are plenty in the industry who agree it's not ideal or perfect. But with no alternatives, how can we judge it? We need to get past judging character and judging the facts. This is why I appreciate the OP's inquiry and objectivity in trying to progress this discussion. Without looking at it cynically and rationally, you go down a slippery slope of condemnation and finger pointing. It's counterproductive. I think the fact that both Mimefreak and Jules Jordan have chimed in on this topic, and both were cynical or sarcastic about it means both black and white purveyors of IR do not respect the implications that they are the bad guys. The industry is not bad, they are only trying to meet the demands of the consumers. I'm sorry if this is dragging, but the flow chart of this is really simple: If you condemn the practice, you're condemning the industry, and if you're condemning the industry, then you must be condemning the consumers, which is to say you're condemning the overall public. The kneejerk response is to read about some extremely tiny disparity and say, well it's unequal therefore it's unconscionable and must be condemned. Take a step back and look at the bigger picture, and you'll find what drives it is not motivated by hatred or discrimination. Step back far enough and you can see the motivations are likelier to be entirely the opposite. Look at who are especially into IR in the first place. It is consumers who are driving all of this. I'm sure the overwhelming majority are the furthest thing from racist. Suggesting porn fans especially interested in IR are racist is no more logical than suggesting fans who especially want to see boy-girl are sexist. There's high demand for 1st IR, otherwise no one would ever pay more for it. No one. There's high demand to see a female performer's first B/G. In no way does that suggest people are sexist. If they were, who would their sexism be favoring? The guy? I mean does anyone here really care about guys 1st's lol. Anyone? If it is sexism, which is extremely dubious, wouldn't it be a sexism favoring the woman? After all, it is her 1st B/G which people care about. Click to expand A perfect example of way over thinking the topic. And, I've been completely objective and remain emotionless on this entire subject. I am and always have been a believer of the comments one post up about the tons of girls doing I/R all the time so why dwell on a couple of girls who are racist/opposed to I/R/think races shouldn't mix/grossed out by concept/etc etc. As far as how much Blacked has or hasn't spent, I have no idea, nor do I care. It's porn, nothing more, nothing less. It's something I review as a past time, I don't dwell on it, I don't get involved in the politics, I don't dwell on "firsts, lasts, or in-betweens. I don't lose sleep over a performer leaving the business without issuing a retirement statement and I don't cry when someone leaves. It's porn. It's girls fucking guys on camera for our viewing enjoyment. Nothing more, nothing less. Edited by - rosco fuji on 5/17/2016 10:13:27 PM [Link]
DiamondJackman Deactivated User Straight From My Brown Balls, Using Good Pussy 501 Posts 10/15	Posted - May 18 2016 : 2:07AM misspornUSA wrote: ^ I've never claimed to know what gets Alison Tyler off. Click to expand But you said you feel that it is UNLIKELY that they ARE attracted to black men. How do you know this? Edited by - Diamondjackman on 5/18/2016 2:09:23 AM [Link]
misspornUSA Senior Member I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13	Posted - May 18 2016 : 10:48AM ^Give me the quote and I'll respond to it. I didn't use the word "unlikely" once on the previous page and that's as far as I'll look. [Link]
DiamondJackman Deactivated User Straight From My Brown Balls, Using Good Pussy 501 Posts 10/15	Posted - May 18 2016 : 12:59PM ^ "^Do you believe that if a performer regularly shoots anal scenes then she must really like anal sex? It's naïve to assume that the reason a performer will or won't do something or someone onscreen is the same reason a performer will or won't do something or someone offscreen." "^^When a pornstar shoots her first IR after years in the industry, do you think to yourself "I guess that she didn't like black guys before but now she's changed her mind"? You've always struck me as more cynical than that." "^They may or may not be. The real question is whether or not those pornstars have only shot with people whom they are attracted to." "^^Well, the excuse does sound racist when someone doesn't qualify it at all (e.g. "I haven't been attracted to any of the black guys whom I've met"). Personally I could even understand someone saying "I'm not attracted to dark skin." I don't doubt that many people would be offended if a pornstar said that, but that at least is a specific physical characteristic. Lumping all of the world's black guys together indiscriminately sounds like a bit much. Anyway, the real problem with that excuse is that performers by and large don't only shoot with people to whom they are attracted. Because of that fact, even Nica Noelle, who has condemnded raceplay as "racist", has singled out the "not attracted" excuse as unbelievable." "^^Your response to point 2 really makes it very clear what exactly we disagree on. [n]Porn as we're discussing it is not simply having sex on camera. Of course if you think that it is that explains why you assume that a pornstar wouldn't shoot with someone who they wouldn't sleep with outside of work. The problem is that you're overlooking the role of money and I'm not. The money is not incidental, it's central. A pornstar isn't just some person who likes to occasionally record their sexual rendezvous. That's not how it works, which is why women and men in porn do not generally only shoot with people whom they would fuck offscreen." You infer that a pornstar's preference plays a secondary role in her decision about what acts to perform and what actors to perform with. So using your logic, Christy Mack didn't do scenes with black men because she didn't get offered a big showcase or a bag full of money. If like Christy did, say that they are NOT attracted to black men, then according to you they are "racist" unless they "qualify" why they aren't attracted to black men. So MPUSA, why exactly is it "naive" to assume that a pornstar doesn't do IR because she simply NOT attracted to black men? Edited by - Diamondjackman on 5/18/2016 1:07:32 PM Edited by - Diamondjackman on 5/18/2016 1:08:07 PM Edited by - Diamondjackman on 5/18/2016 1:09:03 PM [Link]
misspornUSA Senior Member I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13	Posted - May 18 2016 : 1:09PM ^I'm saying that we shouldn't make assumptions about what a pornstar likes to do or doesn't like to do offscreen based on what she does or doesn't do onscreen. That means that we don't know not that we do know, so where did you come up with your Alison Tyler example? Edited by - misspornUSA on 5/18/2016 1:41:41 PM [Link]
misspornUSA Senior Member I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13	Posted - May 18 2016 : 1:38PM ^^What was the context of my reply to LCF? Remember, I quoted his post as well. He was frustrated that pornstars are called racist when they say that they aren't attracted to black men. I struck a middle ground and acknowledged that their excuse sounds racist. The emphasis, used twice in my comment, was not an accident. I intentionally used the words "sound" and "sounds" rather than "is", and I italicized both words to make the distinction more explicit. There is no talk in my comment of a pornstar actually being a racist or not being a racist. DiamondJackman wrote: So using your logic, Christy Mack didn't do scenes with black men because she didn't get offered a big showcase or a bag full of money. Click to expand In general the reasons a pornstar does or doesn't do something has more to do with money or career than personal preference. Christy Mack was dating a racist piece of trash and obviously would have not have risked her physical safety to shoot IR during their relationship. Maybe if she had never met him she would have waited and shot IR one day. Maybe not. In 2014 a well known pornstar who had entered the industry the prior year publicly made disparaging comments about black men and IR and made clear that she would never shoot with a black man. Now she's shot IR b/g, IR anal, IR dp, and IR airtight. Who knows? DiamondJackman wrote: If like Christy did, say that they are NOT attracted to black men, then according to you they are "racist" unless they "qualify" why they aren't attracted to black men. Click to expand I didn't say that anyone was racist. Black men are not a collective, physically or otherwise, and so I explained to LCF why glossing over that sounds racist regardless of the intentions of the speaker. Edited by - misspornUSA on 5/18/2016 1:42:23 PM Edited by - misspornUSA on 5/18/2016 1:52:26 PM [Link]
Canadian_Cindy Deactivated User 1102 Posts 2/15	Posted - May 18 2016 : 2:05PM On a side note... I think it is highly unrealistic to expect 100% of porn performers to be "not racist". Racists exist in all walks of life; they will exist here too. Racist stereotyping is hard for people to break if they were raised a certain way with certain values. The very reason "IR" is it's own specific category has racial undertones and has much to do with the history of black slaves having sex with the white women of the day; and the US populations fascination with that. [Link]

misspornUSA Senior Member I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13	Posted - May 18 2016 : 2:19PM ^I'd be shocked if racism didn't exist among pornstars to varying degrees, so I definitely agree. [Link]
ViolentSaint Member 292 Posts 12/10	Posted - May 18 2016 : 4:31PM Sheridan Love said she would be waiting for an IR and will not listen to any producers/studios for offers now... Also said: heridan Love™ ‏@SheridanLoveXXX 19h19 hours ago @blackgamer1995 not about skin color for me. Just want my fair shake of the profits Click to expand Which I can't accept. She said she is waiting for a big pay day and I'm not trying to downplay her or talk bad about her. But she isn't a big star and likely will never be one. Those are the ladies who get the big pays in these scenes. It's better to simply not say anything about it or a simple "Not at this time" than to get into detail like she did. Makes her look ignorant, imv. [Link]
whatsatelephonebill Senior Member 2935 Posts 10/11	Posted - May 18 2016 : 6:53PM ^ Depends on what you mean by a big payday. You don't have to be Rachel or Alexis to get offers that are much higher than your normal b/g scene rate. [Link]
misspornUSA Senior Member I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13	Posted - May 18 2016 : 8:55PM ^Indeed, there was a pornstar discussed on this thread at some point (too lazy to look) who got just such an offer. She stopped by to comment on it actually. She was barely known at the time of that offer. Edited by - misspornUSA on 5/18/2016 8:57:17 PM [Link]
ViolentSaint Member 292 Posts 12/10	Posted - May 19 2016 : 7:24AM whatsatelephonebill wrote: ^ Depends on what you mean by a big payday. You don't have to be Rachel or Alexis to get offers that are much higher than your normal b/g scene rate. Click to expand I can see that. She's also older and I don't see her rising to the level of someone like Eva Notty has (started as a Score girl too). However, she's putting herself on this pedestal and I think it's pretty ignorant and selfish. If you don't want to do IR, don't do it. I won't care, because at least you're honest with yourself and with your community. I don't know why it bothered me, but to me she was better off just saying "Not right now" instead of being out spoken about it and revealing her (self-righteous) intentions. [Link]
Rosco Fuji Deactivated User On the licking stick, Mr. Magic Dick! 3309 Posts 2/09	Posted - May 19 2016 : 11:05AM Or maybe, just maybe, she has no intention of doing I/R and doesn't want to say it. Saying something like "I want a cut of the net" takes it off her and puts it on the producers. Saying "not right now" would only lead to pestering, with comments like, "How about now?" "or now" "what about now, its' been 2 weeks?" etc etc. Look no further than the guy pestering Gabi about doing a DP. [Link]
misspornUSA Senior Member I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13	Posted - May 19 2016 : 11:18AM ^Except that her tweet is the equivalent of "not right now." She's saying that she'll shoot IR when she gets paid what she wants. Additionally, I don't think there's even a slight chance that fans are going to switch to blaming producers. [Link]
Rosco Fuji Deactivated User On the licking stick, Mr. Magic Dick! 3309 Posts 2/09	Posted - May 19 2016 : 6:45PM You're overthinking it and reading too much into it. Mentioning she wants a cut, when you and I both know that'll never happen, is a graceful way of saying No. It's a pretty easy "out" so to speak. [Link]
whatsatelephonebill Senior Member 2935 Posts 10/11	Posted - May 19 2016 : 7:05PM ^ Except asking for her "fair share of the profit" doesn't have to mean asking for a percentage, which is something that no performer gets unless they are the director/producer of the scene themselves. Getting paid a higher scene rate is still getting a higher percentage of the profit than getting your normal scene rate. And as to your other point (putting the blame on producers instead of herself), we both know that there's still going to be people that blame her even with what she said. Hell, the person that posted it in this thread just blamed her. If it was supposed to be a dodge, it's a bad one (a better one, if dodging is the whole point, would just be to say that she's waiting until she can produce and distribute it herself [i.e. putting it on your own website]). [Link]
misspornUSA Senior Member I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13	Posted - May 19 2016 : 9:47PM ^^I didn't offer some deep and complex interpretation. She's saying that she'll shoot IR if someone offers her enough money. Whether or not that's her actual intention is a separate issue. Like whatsatelephonebill said, it wasn't as effective a dodge as you imagine. Claiming that you're holding out for more money is supposed to shut people up? [Link]

Rosco Fuji Deactivated User On the licking stick, Mr. Magic Dick! 3309 Posts 2/09	Posted - May 20 2016 : 12:35AM As I've mentioned before, you guys are overthinking it and overanalyzing trying to make something out of something that isn't there. It's like this. Yes, she says she'd be up for doing it, but only when she gets a cut of the net. But, since she's never going to get a cut of the net, she's never going to go dark. This is a polite way of saying no, with no hurt feelings. A mainstream example would be, Girl XYZ who I have no interest in, says, "Hey Rosco, want to go out for a drink after work tonight?" Me: "I'd love to, but I have big project due tomorrow" "I would love to , but I'm sorry, but I'm involved with someone" "I'd love to, but I'm sorry, but I already have plans" So, I've killed the issue, didn't hurt her feelings, and blamed something else. It's real simple, she's not doing I/R no matter what she says or you want to believe and she doesn't say no. No need to overthink it. [Link]
whatsatelephonebill Senior Member 2935 Posts 10/11	Posted - May 20 2016 : 1:26AM ^ So, in other words, you're taking her at her word that she's lying. Edit: And just so we're clear, none of this conversation comes from a position of me want to see her do it. I could care less, because I actually am one of those people who will just watch the women that do instead of pestering the ones that don't. The majority of my discussion on this entire subject is academic as opposed to stemming from a desire to have everyone do it. Edited by - whatsatelephonebill on 5/20/2016 1:28:46 AM [Link]
misspornUSA Senior Member I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13	Posted - May 20 2016 : 1:41AM ^^We're not overthinking it, and I'm willing to bet that nearly everyone who reads that tweet will conclude that Sheridan is saying that she'll shoot IR for the right amount of money. Like whatsatelephonebill, I also don't care if Sheridan chooses not to shoot IR. [Link]
DiamondJackman Deactivated User Straight From My Brown Balls, Using Good Pussy 501 Posts 10/15	Posted - May 20 2016 : 2:35AM Rosco Fuji wrote: As I've mentioned before, you guys are overthinking it and overanalyzing trying to make something out of something that isn't there. It's like this. Yes, she says she'd be up for doing it, but only when she gets a cut of the net. But, since she's never going to get a cut of the net, she's never going to go dark. This is a polite way of saying no, with no hurt feelings. A mainstream example would be, Girl XYZ who I have no interest in, says, "Hey Rosco, want to go out for a drink after work tonight?" Me: "I'd love to, but I have big project due tomorrow" "I would love to , but I'm sorry, but I'm involved with someone" "I'd love to, but I'm sorry, but I already have plans" So, I've killed the issue, didn't hurt her feelings, and blamed something else. It's real simple, she's not doing I/R no matter what she says or you want to believe and she doesn't say no. No need to overthink it. Click to expand Several pornstars and said they were going to wait like Sheridan is, and eventually did IR, like Ashley Fires. Edited by - Diamondjackman on 5/20/2016 7:18:48 AM [Link]
Rosco Fuji Deactivated User On the licking stick, Mr. Magic Dick! 3309 Posts 2/09	Posted - May 20 2016 : 10:48AM whatsatelephonebill wrote: ^ So, in other words, you're taking her at her word that she's lying. Edit: And just so we're clear, none of this conversation comes from a position of me want to see her do it. I could care less, because I actually am one of those people who will just watch the women that do instead of pestering the ones that don't. The majority of my discussion on this entire subject is academic as opposed to stemming from a desire to have everyone do it. Edited by - whatsatelephonebill on 5/20/2016 1:28:46 AM Click to expand Yes, That would be one of those little white lies. Along the lines of "Honey, does this dress make me look fat?" "No honey, you look great!" Youre telling people what they want to hear. [Link]
Rosco Fuji Deactivated User On the licking stick, Mr. Magic Dick! 3309 Posts 2/09	Posted - May 20 2016 : 10:49AM misspornUSA wrote: ^^We're not overthinking it, and I'm willing to bet that nearly everyone who reads that tweet will conclude that Sheridan is saying that she'll shoot IR for the right amount of money. Like whatsatelephonebill, I also don't care if Sheridan chooses not to shoot IR. Click to expand yeah, like she says, when she gets a cut of the net. Translation: Unless I'm doing it for my own content, it's not going to happen. [Link]
Rosco Fuji Deactivated User On the licking stick, Mr. Magic Dick! 3309 Posts 2/09	Posted - May 20 2016 : 10:50AM DiamondJackman wrote: Rosco Fuji wrote: As I've mentioned before, you guys are overthinking it and overanalyzing trying to make something out of something that isn't there. It's like this. Yes, she says she'd be up for doing it, but only when she gets a cut of the net. But, since she's never going to get a cut of the net, she's never going to go dark. This is a polite way of saying no, with no hurt feelings. A mainstream example would be, Girl XYZ who I have no interest in, says, "Hey Rosco, want to go out for a drink after work tonight?" Me: "I'd love to, but I have big project due tomorrow" "I would love to , but I'm sorry, but I'm involved with someone" "I'd love to, but I'm sorry, but I already have plans" So, I've killed the issue, didn't hurt her feelings, and blamed something else. It's real simple, she's not doing I/R no matter what she says or you want to believe and she doesn't say no. No need to overthink it. Click to expand Several pornstars and said they were going to wait like Sheridan is, and eventually did IR, like Ashley Fires. Edited by - Diamondjackman on 5/20/2016 7:18:48 AM Click to expand Sure, when the phone stops ringing for the 50th straight M/F or G/G scene. [Link]
murdock Member I'm not an actor, but I play one on TV 911 Posts 4/06	Posted - May 20 2016 : 1:33PM ^ ^^ ^^^ Seriously, I think you are overthinking it. [Link]
misspornUSA Senior Member I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13	Posted - May 20 2016 : 2:22PM Rosco Fuji wrote: yeah, like she says, when she gets a cut of the net. Translation: Unless I'm doing it for my own content, it's not going to happen. Click to expand Again, there's a good chance that most people who read her tweet will interpret it to mean that she simply wants more money. As whatsatelephonebill wrote: "asking for her 'fair share of the profit' doesn't have to mean asking for a percentage, which is something that no performer gets unless they are the director/producer of the scene themselves. Getting paid a higher scene rate is still getting a higher percentage of the profit than getting your normal scene rate." Your interpretation of her tweet is not the obvious meaning of what she wrote. [Link]
whatsatelephonebill Senior Member 2935 Posts 10/11	Posted - May 20 2016 : 2:46PM murdock wrote: ^ ^^ ^^^ Seriously, I think you are overthinking it. Click to expand Because that many arrows can get confusing, you're talking to Rosco, not mpUSA or me, right? [Link]

murdock Member I'm not an actor, but I play one on TV 911 Posts 4/06	Posted - May 20 2016 : 4:41PM Yes, that was directed at Rosco. I think what he says may have some merit, but the irony of the guy telling the people that are basically taking a literal interpretation of something that they are overthinking it, was too much for me to pass up. [Link]
high_flyin5 Member 729 Posts 6/10	Posted - May 21 2016 : 2:21AM Melvyn wrote: DiamondJackman and Rosco Fuji, how much do you think Blacked has invested in their exclusives? Is there any other brand you would speculate has invested MORE than they have in 1st time IR? I understand the point mpUSA is getting at. Her perspective is rooted in facts and business. The bottom line. You guys have persistently inserted subjectivity and emotion into this. This is the impasse, and you guys keep running in circles over the same bs. You could call me, LCF, mpUSA or the other rationalists in here cynical, but the irony is we have better faith in the performers and the industry and the consumers. Arguing against us really seems to advocate for the misanthropic viewpoint. I keep seeing the OP try to stick with facts, but detractors keep rebutting with feels. "But isn't that wrong? But arent't they bigoted? But shouldn't be object?" Unless you truly feel there is a serious grievance here, why do you insist on injecting subjective objections? Why insist on inserting feelings into this? Click to expand And what "facts and business" exactly are being touted that us misanthropes appear to not be grasping? Because unless I missed something, even the OP conceded that there's no verifiable data to suggest that IR dodging (or more specifically, foot dragging) is an effective method of a performer extending their career and/or increasing their popularity. The problem running throughout this thread is that such sentiments are being trotted out as if they are business gospel, when in terms of concrete proof you offer nothing other than "that's the way it is, and anyone who opposes this are just being subjective". Your continued insistence that those who oppose such reasoning are just being "emotional" betrays that your stance as a dispassionate observer is at best fraudulent. Edited by - high_flyin5 on 5/21/2016 2:26:26 AM [Link]
Rosco Fuji Deactivated User On the licking stick, Mr. Magic Dick! 3309 Posts 2/09	Posted - May 21 2016 : 2:47AM misspornUSA wrote: Rosco Fuji wrote: yeah, like she says, when she gets a cut of the net. Translation: Unless I'm doing it for my own content, it's not going to happen. Click to expand Again, there's a good chance that most people who read her tweet will interpret it to mean that she simply wants more money. As whatsatelephonebill wrote: "asking for her 'fair share of the profit' doesn't have to mean asking for a percentage, which is something that no performer gets unless they are the director/producer of the scene themselves. Getting paid a higher scene rate is still getting a higher percentage of the profit than getting your normal scene rate." Your interpretation of her tweet is not the obvious meaning of what she wrote. Click to expand 2nd Sentence: yes it does. 4th Sentence. No it isn't. It's Business 101. [Link]
Rosco Fuji Deactivated User On the licking stick, Mr. Magic Dick! 3309 Posts 2/09	Posted - May 21 2016 : 2:58AM murdock wrote: Yes, that was directed at Rosco. I think what he says may have some merit, but the irony of the guy telling the people that are basically taking a literal interpretation of something that they are overthinking it, was too much for me to pass up. Click to expand May have some merit??? I'm right on the money. It's Business 101. Everyone saying that her saying she wants her fair share of the profits equates to wanting a higher scene rate are 2 different things. In case it isn't clear, her share of the profits equates to a portion of every dvd or scene sold. AKA royalties, not a slightly highter one time expense item further up the income statement. [Link]
high_flyin5 Member 729 Posts 6/10	Posted - May 21 2016 : 3:14AM ViolentSaint wrote: whatsatelephonebill wrote: ^ Depends on what you mean by a big payday. You don't have to be Rachel or Alexis to get offers that are much higher than your normal b/g scene rate. Click to expand I can see that. She's also older and I don't see her rising to the level of someone like Eva Notty has (started as a Score girl too). However, she's putting herself on this pedestal and I think it's pretty ignorant and selfish. If you don't want to do IR, don't do it. I won't care, because at least you're honest with yourself and with your community. I don't know why it bothered me, but to me she was better off just saying "Not right now" instead of being out spoken about it and revealing her (self-righteous) intentions. Click to expand I've noticed some newer performers are becoming outspoken in their demand to be paid a higher rate for IR before they'll even consider shooting it. Something that amused me was when Katrina Jade posted some tweets taking shots at performers who try to demand a higher rate for IR, Alix Lovell popped into the conversation in a rather indignant fashion. Saying that not only would she wait to shoot IR until producers gave her a higher rate, but that black performers should feel flattered about it because IR is more popular now. Even if I didn't have an issue with this practice, it strikes me as an unwise move to be openly combative about it right out of the gate. Won't really win a new performer many more fans, and will possibly piss off the directors who they'll need to hire them. [Link]
whatsatelephonebill Senior Member 2935 Posts 10/11	Posted - May 21 2016 : 3:54AM Rosco Fuji wrote: murdock wrote: Yes, that was directed at Rosco. I think what he says may have some merit, but the irony of the guy telling the people that are basically taking a literal interpretation of something that they are overthinking it, was too much for me to pass up. Click to expand May have some merit??? I'm right on the money. It's Business 101. Everyone saying that her saying she wants her fair share of the profits equates to wanting a higher scene rate are 2 different things. In case it isn't clear, her share of the profits equates to a portion of every dvd or scene sold. AKA royalties, not a slightly highter one time expense item further up the income statement. Click to expand Unless you went and asked her in the past 2 days what her plans are and she told you, there's no way that you know that you're "right on the money". You have an idea. We have an idea. She's the only one that knows the true answer, and she's probably not telling any of us. And I don't even disagree that she's going to wait as long as she thinks she can, seeing as she already did that with shooting b/g. But I don't think she's publicly asking for something that no one gets in an effort to deflect from the fact that she doesn't want to do it, which is what your original suggestion was. Edited by - whatsatelephonebill on 5/21/2016 3:54:56 AM [Link]
Draxxx Senior Member 3831 Posts 2/07	Posted - May 21 2016 : 8:15AM Rosco Fuji wrote: murdock wrote: Yes, that was directed at Rosco. I think what he says may have some merit, but the irony of the guy telling the people that are basically taking a literal interpretation of something that they are overthinking it, was too much for me to pass up. Click to expand May have some merit??? I'm right on the money. It's Business 101. Everyone saying that her saying she wants her fair share of the profits equates to wanting a higher scene rate are 2 different things. In case it isn't clear, her share of the profits equates to a portion of every dvd or scene sold. AKA royalties, not a slightly highter one time expense item further up the income statement. Click to expand I have no idea who this person is but she probably just phrased it wrong or awkwardly and simply wants to be on the bandwagon that she sees the other girls on getting paid more for her first IR scene. Her saying she wants her fair share of the profits for her probably simply means "They're going to make a lot of money from this and I want to be paid my share to do it...". Still, without me knowing her, I'd imagine she's just like plenty of other girls in porn that will do IR if there's an incentive like a career boost or bigger scene rate or whatever but aren't doing it at the moment because they're content doing typical white on white scenes and have enough work to keep them busy. She's probably being totally honest that if she gets the right offer she'll do an IR scene and if she doesn't she okay with not doing one. That's probably the simple truth and not the sly agenda you've concocted for her. [Link]
Draxxx Senior Member 3831 Posts 2/07	Posted - May 21 2016 : 8:39AM high_flyin5 wrote: I've noticed some newer performers are becoming outspoken in their demand to be paid a higher rate for IR before they'll even consider shooting it. Something that amused me was when Katrina Jade posted some tweets taking shots at performers who try to demand a higher rate for IR, Alix Lovell popped into the conversation in a rather indignant fashion. Saying that not only would she wait to shoot IR until producers gave her a higher rate, but that black performers should feel flattered about it because IR is more popular now. Even if I didn't have an issue with this practice, it strikes me as an unwise move to be openly combative about it right out of the gate. Won't really win a new performer many more fans, and will possibly piss off the directors who they'll need to hire them. Click to expand Since the whole higher pay for IR is a thing now with a lot of girls even if they don't say it publicly they'll still have the mindset of holding out for more. Some girls will get what they want and some won't. The girls will look at the girls who were successful in having a big payday and not think much about the much bigger pool of girls waiting/hoping for that big payday that no one ever offers. Right or wrong, it's a thing that exists and some girls will profit from it so I can understand newcomers and even the vets seeing it as a part of the porn business landscape now. I think at this point most of the super fans know this has become a somewhat common business practice and won't hold it against a girl if she states it publicly. If the girl has a hardcore fan following they'll be on her side and want the studio to pay whatever it takes to see her do IR. Most fans just want to see what they want and don't have the emotional baggage attached like some people in this thread. [Link]
Rosco Fuji Deactivated User On the licking stick, Mr. Magic Dick! 3309 Posts 2/09	Posted - May 21 2016 : 3:34PM whatsatelephonebill wrote: Rosco Fuji wrote: murdock wrote: Yes, that was directed at Rosco. I think what he says may have some merit, but the irony of the guy telling the people that are basically taking a literal interpretation of something that they are overthinking it, was too much for me to pass up. Click to expand May have some merit??? I'm right on the money. It's Business 101. Everyone saying that her saying she wants her fair share of the profits equates to wanting a higher scene rate are 2 different things. In case it isn't clear, her share of the profits equates to a portion of every dvd or scene sold. AKA royalties, not a slightly highter one time expense item further up the income statement. Click to expand Unless you went and asked her in the past 2 days what her plans are and she told you, there's no way that you know that you're "right on the money". You have an idea. We have an idea. She's the only one that knows the true answer, and she's probably not telling any of us. And I don't even disagree that she's going to wait as long as she thinks she can, seeing as she already did that with shooting b/g. But I don't think she's publicly asking for something that no one gets in an effort to deflect from the fact that she doesn't want to do it, which is what your original suggestion was. Edited by - whatsatelephonebill on 5/21/2016 3:54:56 AM Click to expand Are you really this dense are just pretending? [Link]
killbillvol69 All-Star Member ^Lucy Pinder 18634 Posts 4/08	Posted - May 21 2016 : 3:41PM I think what some are trying to say is that she may have misspoke. She may have said that she wants a higher percentage of the profits, but girls never get any percentage of the profits, for any scene. They get a flat rate, agreed to before hand. So what she more likely meant is that she just wants more money than her b/g scene rate to do it, and probably even more than most people's regular b/g IR rate. What's more likely, a performer wanting a type of contract that is never offered, or a performer misspeaking business terms? My guess is the latter. [Link]
Canadian_Cindy Deactivated User 1102 Posts 2/15	Posted - May 21 2016 : 4:18PM [Link]
whatsatelephonebill Senior Member 2935 Posts 10/11	Posted - May 21 2016 : 7:27PM killbillvol69 wrote: I think what some are trying to say is that she may have misspoke. She may have said that she wants a higher percentage of the profits, but girls never get any percentage of the profits, for any scene. They get a flat rate, agreed to before hand. So what she more likely meant is that she just wants more money than her b/g scene rate to do it, and probably even more than most people's regular b/g IR rate. What's more likely, a performer wanting a type of contract that is never offered, or a performer misspeaking business terms? My guess is the latter. Click to expand I would have thought that was obvious. I mean, it was obvious enough that everyone else in this thread except him seemed to understand it. [Link]
Melvyn Senior Member 2797 Posts 12/12	Posted - May 23 2016 : 2:14AM Canadian_Cindy wrote: There are enough women having sex with black men in porn to keep anyone busy 24/7 if they never sleep and have no outside life. Click to expand It is still not enough though imo! [Link]
ghost88 Member 615 Posts 9/13	Posted - May 23 2016 : 12:40PM the only reason you are getting a few more girls doing IR is because they are being paid more to do it. Outside of blacked you see a lot of the same faces. Anyone who doesn't see the overall quality of girls blacked gets as compared to blacks on blondes well I just don't know. That's all about $. You don't get much from blacked exclusive girls besides 1 or 2 scenes or maybe 3 in a year. Hard to get into any of those girls at all if they barely shoot it. Liking a few new hotties like stella cox who do IR as a normal routine, and not just for the 1 and done paycheck. [Link]
misspornUSA Senior Member I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13	Posted - May 23 2016 : 2:57PM ^From a viewer's perspective that's the problem with the Blacked contract system. A performer shoots her first IR for Blacked and then is exclusive to Blacked for half a year, so unless Lansky shoots her multiple times during that period and doesn't sit on those scenes for very long we won't see see her in other IR scenes for sometime. That said, that strategy is part of what keeps Blacked competitive. [Link]
blkknight1 Member 707 Posts 10/09	Posted - May 23 2016 : 10:52PM This discussion lately has reminded me of an old South Park episode where the guys formed a rock group but refused to play because people were illegally downloading the music anyway. Anyway in the episode there was a scene were they were doing a news report and they said a poll was done to see if people would stop downloading because of the refusal. The result we 1% yes 2% no, and 97% said who the hell is MOOP(being the name of the guys band). Now I would have to believe that the same thing would apply to a performer waiting to shoot IR. If a poll were taken and people asked if Pornstar X's policy on IR was to wait for a bit would you still watch her scenes. There would be a contingent that says Yes there would be one that says No, but I willing to bet that the vast majority would say who they hell is pornstar X. Reading the above posts on the likes of Sheridan Love my initial reaction was WHO? Another thing is that it seems for those who are playing the waiting the game there are some who are out promoting/hyping it even before a deal has been struck to film it. It's kinda like the whole Brazzers Madison Ivy anal situation, this could lead to some frustration and anger among IR fans. If you are going to film the scene and are looking for a the best deal would it not wise to handle it behind the scene first get the deal done and then start hyping it up. One last thing I cant recall if this has been brought up in terms of first IR and how lucrative they can be to the parties involved. Just my personal opinion first anything be it overall scene/IR or whatever are usually underwhelming and hardly ever memorable unless they are the performers only scene. So could it be the reason that first IR are also popular because after waiting for a while you are never sure of it is the performer's last. [Link]