I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - Aug 13 2015 : 5:51PM
^She shot the interview before that but the excerpt was not posted until today, so, not knowing what she said, they would have had no reason to not work with her. Since everyone in the industry and every IR fan will know that it was Dogfart she was calling out in her interview, I can't imagine that they would hire her again. The n-word doesn't appear in the majority of Dogfart scenes. Spring Thomas, for instance, used it frequently on her Dogfart site when she was still active, but if you look at the scenes on the network in general on Blacks on Blondes, etc. you'll find that the n-word rarely shows up. It's always been up to the performer.
Sorry folks if this was touched on (or more probably joked about) already. It's been a minute since I checked into this thread. Here's a question: what if a performer just wanted to identify as white? I know it sounds ludicrous (e.g. that white NAACP local chapter leader Rachel Dolezal saying she identifies as black), BUT, what legal requirement is there for a performer to claim any race in such a way that must conform to common perceptions? I realize that by now, the majority of black male performers have already disclosed some identification information somewhere in which they declared regarding themselves as black, but what if for example some new black male talent just put down "white" under his info? If he identifies that way, shouldn't we accept that? I am not really sure myself, but I will say it could be an interesting reversal of the alleged and established discriminatory practices in porn. Who would oppose it? And do they have legal, actionable cause to oppose it? Let's say some new jack Mandingo 2.0 entered the game, and he puts down white or Hispanic or whatever, anything besides black, and then a savvy producer realizes this unique discrepancy and casts him to star in a movie with Alexis Texas. KNOWING it would be her first "IR" as the industry labels it, but technically he would not have to advertise it as such. Naturally Alexis would flip out (not because of any racist bias I am willing to accuse her of, but because she knows this will steal the thunder away from any proposed "Official IR" debut), and I imagine her agency would also flip out too. Just think about it though. Is anyone legally vested with the authority to look at someone and label them a particular race? And if so, isn't it even worse that they would do it in an industry where there is explicit barriers for being labeled? Wouldn't that be such a clear cut textbook example of racial discrimination that it could be the tipping point which sees what many believe to be the inevitable abolition of this race labeling practice? I'm sure some shrewd lawyer could poke holes in this scheme, but maybe someone could formulate it better than myself. Do you guys see what I am getting at? IDK, I may flip flop on this issue again though. I still think companies should be able to pick who they want for their movies, even if that ends up looking racially homogeneous. Just like BET can reserve the right to exclusively hire black hosts for their shows, if Digital Playground or Brazzers wants to only hire white stars because they think that's in their best business interest, so be it. They just won't even appeal to me. I suspect what would happen is, even if some sort of regulation was put forth prohibiting this current race labeling in porn, companies would still discriminate. Kind of like how they do for that TV show The Bachelor, right? Unless I am mistaken, all their bachelors have been 99% white or Hispanic, right? And what do you guys think about Alex Jones, the porn performer not the radio host? Is he black or not? Should it matter? Do you think he gets passed on to a certain degree, even though he does not identify as black? Would some agencies who represent females still consider him black, and thus try and keep their female talent from working with him until they are officially declaring availability for IR? I suspect that happens. Cuz whether you are race conscious or not, whether you consider Alex black or white, or even whether he considers himself black or white, if you're looking at thumbnails on Twitter, and you see him promoting a scene he is in with a white chick, closeups of him penetrating a white pussy looks as much like what is considered "IR" as any other. It's a white pussy being plowed by a big dark dick. And I think that's awesome. lol
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Interracial4Life Deactivated User
329 Posts 3/15
Posted - Aug 13 2015 : 9:16PM
But Alex Jones is not African America so he doesn't count as IR, I view IR as Black (African America) Men with a White, Asian, or Latino girl. I'm sure Mr Jones won't be supported by black IR fans just like they won't support white male performers not ever with a scene with BW. Edited by - Interracial4Life on 8/13/2015 9:18:00 PM
^^ It's always been more about how you look than what you identify as racially. There's already a few male performers out there that are dark skinned, and possibly have black parents, but identify as Latino and thus aren't counted as far as IR is concerned (Bruno Dickemz and Karlo Karrera immediately come to mind). No one's going to actually go look up your ethnic background, because in the end it doesn't really matter. If you're darker than a certain subjective skin color and aren't "identifiably" Arab/Southeast Asian, people are going to think of you as black, no matter what your actual ethnic background is. And Alex Jones is in this weird place where he gets to experience the benefits of people not considering him black (working with girls who don't do IR), but also is too light skinned to generally be used in your typical interracial movies, even though he self-identifies as black. So as you can see, there's both upsides and downsides to "not being black enough". If someone like Alex came along but was a "bigger/better performer", I feel like it'd be a question of whether they valued their racial identity more than money. Because the smart thing to do financially would be to say you're anything but black. Edited by - whatsatelephonebill on 8/13/2015 9:29:28 PM
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - Aug 13 2015 : 9:28PM
^^^Alex Jones is an interesting case in that Bangbros has marketed him as black when it suits them, such as in his scenes with Lolly Link and Miley Mae. Meanwhile, other studios do not regard him as black and Lolly Ink also denied that he was black for her own purposes, as did Cassidy Klein. Nonetheless, Alex Jones himself uses the #BBC hashtag in his Twitter profile, though formerly he used the #MixedRace hashtag as well. Edited by - misspornUSA on 8/13/2015 9:29:17 PM
But who in the industry has the authority to look at a performer and label them? Is there a race commissioner? A guy can be Wesley Snipes darkness but if he identifies as Asian, so be it! I believe there are some black Japanese folk. If they have been living in Japan since ancient times, who could deny they are Asian? IMO even if they have black skin, if they're ancestors as far back as recorded history goes have lived in Asia, they are deeply ingrained in an Asian culture, then they can identify as Asian. This point is interesting because race doesn't even have a concrete definition. If a company is inquiring about "race", I believe there should be liberty to claim something besides a color. Yet again, on the flip side, I believe companies have a right to cast people of the color they want. If they want a dark skin woman with a light skin dude, that's their artistic prerogative. If they want a pale chick or a bronze chick, whatever. I think show business gives them license to be picky about superficial shit. That's so much of show biz anyway.
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - Aug 14 2015 : 12:31AM
An industry consensus usually develops about the racial categorization of individual performers. These consensuses do not develop cooperatively, as the various studios are in competition with one another, but producers generally think alike in regards to who is and who isn't "black" or "white." In the case of Alex Jones, regardless of the minority position held by Bangbros, the general consensus among producers is that he is not black. The question among producers is "Can we sell him as black?" Outside of Bangbros producers have answered that question in the negative.
Actually, I have a feeling the question is more like "Can we sell him as non-black, to girls who don't do interracial?" since many more non-interracial scenes are shot by most studios than interracial ones. And the answer to that has been "yes".
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - Aug 14 2015 : 1:16AM
^Hmm. I wonder how many no-lists he's been placed on by pornstars who aren't convinced that he's not "white"? Does he get asked about his race on set by worried pornstars? To avoid paying her extra, Bangbros obviously did not inform Lolly Ink that her scene with Alex would be marketed as IR, so I'd guess that pornstars who are aware of that case would want to be careful that the same doesn't happen to them. Meanwhile, Alex's use of the #BBC hashtag and the fact that he's dropped #MixedRace from his Twitter bio suggests that he'd rather be identified as black.
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research1 Deactivated User
156 Posts 7/15
Posted - Aug 14 2015 : 1:54AM
Jenna Ivory willingly talked shit about her own race for movies. How can you complain about Black women when you are into a White female performer who is a bigger sellout and disgrace than the women you guys are making threads about??
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Interracial4Life Deactivated User
329 Posts 3/15
Posted - Aug 14 2015 : 8:08AM
^ Seem that you are butt hurt because you don't like BM/WF scenes, oh go cry me a river
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - Aug 14 2015 : 10:15AM
^^I haven't made any threads about black women, and I see nothing wrong with them (or white women) roleplaying in fetish IR scenes. EDIT: Here's a question research1, do you believe that when Jenna's " talked shit about her own race for movies" she actually meant what she said? Was she stating her own beliefs, or was she acting for the scene? You do know that it's fake, right? A lot of these women have a white boyfriend or husband at home. Some of them have never had sex with a black man offscreen. Some of them would never have sex with a black man offscreen. Yet, you're offended when they're playing a role that may have nothing to do with their real life and real views?Edited by - misspornUSA on 8/14/2015 10:43:54 AM
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Curtom Deactivated User
293 Posts 8/14
Posted - Aug 14 2015 : 12:38PM
Precisely
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T'challa Deactivated User
13 Posts 8/15
Posted - Aug 16 2015 : 6:54PM
i dont want to go through this whole thread but i would like to add my two cents to this statement. I believe that if you're very attractive in this business you can do whatever the hell you want without any ramifications whatsoever to your career. Chicks like alice green and abbey rain are decently cute but not on the level of say a tori black or anikka albrite so if i was an agent i just might tell them to hold out a little while so that maybe that kind of label doesnt become attached to them. On the other hand women like anikka or mia malkova or keisha grey or abella danger dont have to holdout for anything tho because of how attractive they are (plus a white girl with a booty is always a commodity) so when girls use this excuse for not doing ir i usually just right them off to be honest (even though only one of them on that list doesnt do ir). EDIT: when i say "whatever the hell you want" i mean from a porn standpoint not that you can act a fool on a set or something like that because even the most attractive women can get black balled for that kind of stuff Edited by - t'challa on 8/16/2015 6:55:53 PM
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Mass Facialties Deactivated User
"Facialized Vol. 7" 2021 AVN Awards Winner: Best Oral Movie 9308 Posts 9/13
Posted - Aug 17 2015 : 3:28AM
^ The "more attractive" girls, as you put it (or most popular), are able to hold out for bigger pay days because they have the leverage-popularity plus plenty of work offers. While other girls, like Abbey Rain and Alice Green, don't have such leverage and have to take, presumably, whatever they can get. Considering this, I'd say the most popular girls are more likely to "hold out" on things because they know they don't have to take the first offer that comes their way and they can sit back 'n wait until "the price is right."
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - Aug 17 2015 : 10:29AM
Popular performers who have shot IR early in their career generally shot those scenes before they had any idea of the success they would later experience. Popular pornstars who decided not to list themselves as available for IR when they started also made that decision before they knew how successful they would be. Neither group can be said to have had anymore leverage at the start of their careers than Abbey and Alice did as the start of their's. We also know from Olivia Austin (a few pages back) that lesser known pornstars can also get paid big for their first scene with a black man. Edited by - misspornUSA on 8/17/2015 10:43:34 AM
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - Aug 17 2015 : 10:43AM
Considering that pornstars sign a contract with Blacked that prevents them from shooting with black men for other studios for six months, it would be reasonable to assume that Blacked pays big for exclusives. That said, Carter Cruise (and Dani Daniels?) denied that they received big pay days from Blacked. Edited by - misspornUSA on 8/17/2015 10:44:20 AM
I honestly think Alexis Texas would for the "right price" but by this point having dodged so long, she's just enjoying the bidding war other companies have pitched to her trying to entice her for that exclusive IR debut. I have no idea what that could possibly be worth. 10,000? 20,000? I wouldn't rule those out. Even if the investment results in a loss for the producer on that movie by itself, it still boosts the company's overall market value because it's big publicity which you can't even buy otherwise. Just imagine if her IR scene didn't make back its cost AT ALL. Consider it putting 30,000 down the drain. The publicity it would get alone would make up for it I think. I wonder how much the average porn flick makes, as in total gross. How many units sold? I wish there was a way we could see more detailed numbers like Billboard tracks. But I suspect that unlike mainstream movie ticket sales and book sales and album sales, there's no one conventional tracker because porn is more of a discrete commodity. But they have to have UPC codes or some kind of tracking number that indicates when they pass point of sale. Edited by - Melvyn on 8/17/2015 1:15:32 PM
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Interracial4Life Deactivated User
329 Posts 3/15
Posted - Aug 17 2015 : 2:54PM
^ I like to know myself how it work, but we know the agents will get half of the cut from a 1st IR scene. We know Jules paid Jenna Presley, and Amy Reid a bunch load for there 1st IR scene because Jenna Presley on Howard Sterns said she got like $10,000 for her 1st IR scene. But let not forget that there are some racist girls who will only do IR scene for a high price so those are the one who charged more. Ava Adams tweeted about a few month ago it that she know girls who are racist and don't like black men but will do IR for the money. Since Ava posted on here let give her take on it.
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research1 Deactivated User
156 Posts 7/15
Posted - Aug 17 2015 : 3:01PM
I don't know why people can't get past the Alexis Texas thing. There are far more big booty WF in porn now than when AT came on the scene. I was never into her tbh. I respect her sticking by her guns, but she was never someone I was interested in.
^The more a girl resists, the more people wanna see it, regardless of how good they are. At this point, the only option for Alexis would be Blacked, they are the name in IR despite what detractors say.
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research1 Deactivated User
156 Posts 7/15
Posted - Aug 17 2015 : 3:11PM
These guys think of it as a conquest. They are more interested in the ones who don't/haven't shot a scene with a BM than those who have. They also tend to be the type who hate WM. Maybe that's where the conquest fetish comes from.
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - Aug 17 2015 : 3:32PM
A substantial portion of IR's consumer base are white males. There's a reason why whenever a performer on Dogfart speaks to the camera, she explicitly addresses white men. Edited by - misspornUSA on 8/17/2015 4:12:03 PM
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - Aug 17 2015 : 3:55PM
Bonnie Rotten has written on her thread that her choice to postpone shooting with black men was purely a business decision and that she intended to eventually direct and star in an interracial showcase, which now will never take place because she has embraced monogamy. As a pessimist, I expect that this will be a trend in porn and perhaps already is. A growing number of pornstars will shoot anal and everything else, leave black men for last as part of a business strategy, then retire for whatever reason without ever having shot with a black man. Edited by - misspornUSA on 8/17/2015 4:11:04 PM
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Interracial4Life Deactivated User
329 Posts 3/15
Posted - Aug 17 2015 : 4:11PM
It her choice but also my choice not to buy the movie, not all IR fans aren't going to support it. I think that's a wild feed. Like I've always said, if a star chooses not to work with black talent, then don't look For black money, and don't look to make money off of black stars. It's appears to be a lot of the same old shit.
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - Aug 17 2015 : 5:24PM
Plenty of Americans are racist to varying degrees, so it should surprise no one that some pornstars are racist. That said, I personally don't think that the personal racism of individual pornstars, or even the racism of some agents, directors, and producers is the main issue. Bonnie Rotten's comment reminds us that the real problem is the current IR business model. The racist views of various individuals within the industry is, to my mind, secondary.
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Interracial4Life Deactivated User
329 Posts 3/15
Posted - Aug 17 2015 : 5:34PM
BTW are these agent, directors, or companies racist because they won't say it we know who they are, this is why I won't support girls who won't do scene with black men.
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research1 Deactivated User
156 Posts 7/15
Posted - Aug 17 2015 : 6:07PM
MOD: You were one of the people the warning was given to in this thread. You failed to read it and follow it. In the efforts of not shutting down the thread, you are NOT post in this thread again for any reason or you will be asked to leave the forum. Edited by - flash on 8/18/2015 6:06:03 PM
Jenna Presley was bad as fuck. Amy Reid was boring. To me, it's more about what the female brings to it. It's more than just "get her first IR = greatness." I'm sure there's a ton of females out there who havent done IR yet, but I couldn't care less because they are boring. Alexis Texas is not boring though. I'm a big fan of her fuck game.
But then we have Nikki Benz, who is as close to an analogous situation as Alexis Texas as we're likely to have, coming into this thread and saying she didn't get paid a ton of money by Jules for doing Jungle Fever last year. And when I hear that, I have to sit down and wonder if that level of payday even exists anymore. Because if Nikki can't get it, I don't know that I see Alexis being able to get it either. Edited by - whatsatelephonebill on 8/17/2015 6:42:29 PM
Which, to be completely honest, is the thing I like most about the existence of Blacked. I can accept the fact that for the girls it's a business decision and they are waiting for someone to pay them "X" amount of money for it, or give them a showcase, or whatever. Blacked being around and putting their money into this means that more girls can get that X amount of money out of the way to shoot their first relatively early, and as consumers we get more girls shooting IR because someone already paid that "first scene" money.
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - Aug 17 2015 : 6:59PM
^^Nikki said that getting paid more to shoot with a black man is wrong. If she wanted a big pay day, she almost certainly could have gotten one. Hell, Olivia Austin got offered $4k as a newbie, so I have no doubt that Alexis would get some serious cash for her first shoot with a black man. Edited by - misspornUSA on 8/17/2015 7:00:40 PM
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Interracial4Life Deactivated User
329 Posts 3/15
Posted - Aug 17 2015 : 7:26PM
Check this by Justin Long why he stop interracial scenes on racism in porn he got a point here., you just got to join the sites to listen to the interview. lick to 9/14 and you go to Justin Long Part 2. But he have some real shit on how racism in the industry , and companies that don't shoot IR. He also put Vivid, Wicked, DP, LA Direct, the owner of LA Direct, and Nikki Benz on blast. Now I know he is retired from the industry but if a current black male performers ever did that would he be blacklisted from the industry? Now what if Lexington Steele said he won't do IR anymore or any black men stop doing IR for one year, would it have a big impact on the industry because if all black men stop shooting IR for one year then it will be hard to find other black men out there. How will companies that shoot IR like Blacked.com or other feel or the girls who do IR.
Edited by - Interracial4Life on 8/17/2015 8:23:26 PM
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - Aug 17 2015 : 8:30PM
^Lex is a legend but he is only one man, and if he started working exclusively with black women I doubt that act would transform the industry. What would have a real effect is if all, or even just most black men decided together that they would only shoot with black women until the IR system was changed, but such a thing would never happen.
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - Aug 17 2015 : 8:37PM
Not all "rabid fans" actually pay for porn. I'm talking about Dogfart's members here, their paying audience who pornstars in their trailers and scenes sometimes address. Your understanding of cuckoldry is virtually nonexistent, and I am not going to waste my time discussing that issue with you again.
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research1 Deactivated User
156 Posts 7/15
Posted - Aug 17 2015 : 9:04PM
The dude is a liar and a hypocrite. He made that interview back in 2010. http://www.lukeisback.com/2010/04/justin-long-says-i-will-no-longer-be-doing-any-sort-of-interracial-porn/ he was still doing IR scenes as late as 2014. http://www.iafd.com/person.rme/perfid=justinlong/gender=m/justin-long.htm Including scenes for companies that make racist IR porn. He complained about racism in IR scenes but he didn't have a problem with it when non-Black people were the target to be mocked or degraded.
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - Aug 17 2015 : 10:21PM
How many times by now must she have turned down the "right price"? Money is not her reason for not shooting with black men. Just to be clear, I'm not implying that she's a racist, nor would I. There are any number of less inflammatory alternative explanations for Alexis' choice to not have sex on camera with black men.
I can't see it happening after how much money Jenna Presley and Amy Reid commanded and Amy phoned in her scenes. In this internet age, production companies, even the biggest ones, cannot take that high of a risk. They basically will stick to the known regulars who put out the high quality performances. Only way I can see it happening with Alexis is if it was in a showcase which also included her first non-boyfriend anal and DP. That for sure will sell off the shelves.
Bangbros tends to use a darker skin Hispanics as "Black" but when you watch tv, baseball, soccer, etc. you can tell the difference between a black guy and a hispanic even if they have similar skin tone. For example, Will Smith to me is black but guys like Pedro Martinez and Ronaldinho are Hispanic or Latin in my eyes even though they are both darker than Will Smith. Alex Jones, his body looks like he bleaches himself except around his genitals. Other hispanics like Karlo Karrera do not register as black because of certain physical features such as their hair and facial features. I kinda do the same with Manuel, I tend to forget he is Spanish sometimes until he opens his mouth and starts rambling in French
IAFD is literally the worst place to go to when it comes to finding out when someone shot something. They basically only list the year the DVD was released, and have NO IDEA of when it was shot. Not to mention the fact that it doesn't differentiate on scenes that are original for the movie or bonus scenes that may have come from another movie. Basically, you can shoot a scene in 2010, and have it release in 2015, and it will still be listed as a 2015 release according to IAFD (unless it's off of a DVD that is entirely a compilation).
The people still on her are new watchers who only know her from seeing her in rap videos and don't know her history. I was the same but that was way back when I started watching about 7 years ago. I basically dumped her catalog around 2011 when I actually started reading comments and doing research. I think my turning point was when she was in a WCP or JJV movie, and she was a headliner for an IR movie yet her scene had her shooting with Marco Banderas. Although, I dumped her scenes, I don't hate her; I just wont support her and can dedicate to other more open-minded performers. I also laugh when I stumble across her in certain scenes, such as the case when she played in a swinger movie and I think Tee Reel played her boyfriend but then they swapped from two IR couples to an all-black and all-white couple(that's another reason I dont like them, they ruin certain fantasies with their "stipulations")
Wow, irony on top of irony since she's directing IR movies at Elegant. Bonnie's another type of D------ I don't like. Does every sexual act possible(mainstream and crossover) but has issues doing the most tamest, softest hardcore scene with a black guy.
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research1 Deactivated User
156 Posts 7/15
Posted - Aug 17 2015 : 11:26PM
That is not true. IR4L or whatever his initials are is all over the internet and has been for years. He's no new guy. Fredgee is definitely not a new guy either. The folks I see all talk about her other porn stuff. It's not new people who just know her from side stuff. Nikki Benz used to get dragged on here too until just before she started doing BM/WF IR scenes. You guys act like people haven't read the forums before making an account. I've read this stuff for years. I finally made an account to expose a fraudster that was lurking on the forum. Edited by - research1 on 8/17/2015 11:28:47 PM
I know the areas, she, Rachel Starr, and Rachel Roxxx are from in Texas...I'll just say this, they would find ways to drink white coffee if they could. To add, they are from some of the most conservative(traditionalist, bible belt, etc.) areas of one of, if not the most conservative state in the country.
Petite Hottie Has A Tight Grip - review by Captain Jack
Posted - Aug 13 2015 : 5:26PM
