So you think the rates should be the same, and in honor of BHM this talent firm defied the standard industry convention of higher rates for first time IR, and made them equal. Again I ask, what is wrong with this? Can you think of a better way for a talent firm to honor BHM? Did you notice any other talent firms or agencies announcing an equal rate for any reason, in honor of anything? No. So you're simply criticizing this one for going against the grain, because what? As I said before, I think you just have a problem with anyone in porn making any reference to BHM. If that's the case, I'm sorry but you're just confirming what I said. You're the type that would damn them if they do, and damn them if they don't. If no one does anything, you're complain that no one is doing anything. If someone does something, if only under the guise of pandering (which is still better than nothing), then you complain. So the kneejerk PC crowd can decry this as an outrage all they want, but in the end, this upstart talent firm openly declared they would defy standard industry practice and be willing to lose some money in honor of BHM. You should applaud them. You should encourage more agencies to do the same, if for no reason other than bringing attention not only to BHM, but also to the double standard which is standard industry practice. Imagine if all the other agencies made the same gesture, the issue would be brought to the fore among so many players in the industry, I bet there would be serious talk about policy change. However, I simply do not see how this practice can be stopped. Why? Because it's about females rights to be selective. How do you void that? I'm sure for selfish viewers out there, they would LOVE if female performers could no longer choose which males they fuck. That way they would inevitably be paired up with the guys that selfish viewers want to see them fuck. But then who does decide? The agencies? If the decision gets to be made arbitrarily by agencies, they would lose their clients (the performers). It's bad business. So should the decision be up to studios/directors? Most savvy directors out there know the importance of developing a good relationship with female talent. If some director was greedy and matched a chick with a male performer who was huge, e.g. Shane Diesel, even though the female explicitly said she can't take a huge dick, but she found herself stuck in a contract she had to honor and hypothetically if it was the director/studio who get to decide, and they forced her to take Diesel, well you can bet your bottom dollar she will never work with that company/director ever again. It's bad business to say the least. So who gets to decide? The reason we have to respect this practice of selectivity (read: discrimination) is because ultimately, the overall view is that the females have the right to pick and choose. No one wants them to be forced. I know I sure as hell don't. And I find it kind of sick and sad when I see ravenous goons slamming and attacking females over their personal preference. Keep in mind, I say all this is a big supporter of IR. My own personal taste is biased in favor of IR. So if there was a way to make IR more common and to eliminate any hurdles that impede its production, I'm for that, but not at the expense of this principle that respects the females rights to be selective. Not just the female's, but the male performers' rights too. They should not be forced to engage in what they don't wish to do, however shallow their hang ups might be. Besides, those who avoid IR do so at their own expense. Listen to Lex Steele calmly explain it, he's not losing any sleep over the idea that a few girls in the biz refuse to work with him. He's a banner superstar. Chicks who pass up an opportunity to star in one of his movies aren't just losing out on that small bonus pay, they're giving up a major marquee spotlight, which very few, if any, white male stars can provide. There's a few like Manuel and James Deen, although the latter is now a volatile, possibly detrimental commodity, but just think how dumb it is for a chick to pass on doing IR, given the major names like Shane Diesel, Lex, Mandingo, and Flash, who could all get their own series. It's just leaving money on the table along with lots of exposure you can't even buy. I do understand the logic of milking the game and staggering your 1sts, but that only goes so far, and the returns become diminishing against the money left on the table. Think about the boost in popularity girls got by working with Lansky for Blacked. Even if they were not paying extra to get 1st time exclusive rights, it would be worth it for these girls, considering Blacked is one of the hottest new brands in the game. AVN just awarded them best membership website. Performers should have their agents fighting to get them featured on there.
A habit which just so happens to be a smart business practice. You think removing the IR category off of these vendors sites is going to help them market their product better? This would be laughable if your naivete wasn't so sad. I sincerely feel bad that you think this. If these sites got rid of the category, how would their customers find what they want? You do realize there is a market for IR, right? Don't you grasp what this whole thing is about? In essence, by saying there should be no delineation in categorization, you're saying there shouldn't even be an IR category that is being produced. Sorry Zy28, but there's millions of consumers out there who would disagree. If their favored site removes that category, it just makes it harder for them to find what they want. Then they will just go to another site which does feature handy categories so they can find what they are looking for more easily. Again, you are acting like this "habit" is arbitrary. As if the gatekeepers in porn, moguls like Jordan, Stagliano, Adriano, et al, just sit around in a smoke filled room conspiring how best to throw away money needlessly investing in what you think are unnecessary habits. Like these guys are so bigoted they just can't wait to set fire to tens of thousands of dollars every year by signing off on bonus paychecks to girls doing their first IR. This is not 1950s segregation. This is 2010s celebration. This is not an oppressive system that keeps anyone down and degraded. It actually is how many black performers are eating well and getting rich. Do you not understand how rich Lex Steele got as a performer, that he could start his own company, and you do realize as a black CEO of his own brand, like Justin Slayer, another brand owner, they also realized that catering to IR is in their best interest? This isn't some racist white CAC's devious machination to keep these guys down. Jules Jordan actually helped make Lex into a star. Now, Lex would be a star with or without Jules, I'm not saying Lex owes Jules everything. However, it cannot be denied that Jules helped. And yes, they teamed up to put out one of the most popular franchises in porn history with Lex the Impaler. And it was marketed as IR. No one was being hurt in this process. They both mutually benefited. I just think you and some others have been drinking the SJW kool-aid too much here. Edited by - Melvyn on 3/1/2016 4:01:19 AM
No, this is where you are definitively factually wrong. There have been sites that sold adult DVD's which did not feature very refined categorization. And you know what happened with them? They either went under, or they adapted by learning *gasp* customers like finding what they like! And categories are helpful! Egads! How can you not grasp this? I'm sure in the very beginning of distributing adult home videos, back when VHS first blew up, some poor saps tried selling them in a catalog with no specified categorizations. Just had a random mix. I'm sure they sold some stuff for a little while, because VHS was new and people were just excited at the new format and ease of use. But eventually it became clear that people had their own tastes, and you would stand to sell more if you learned how to cater to them. You don't need to be an expert in marketing to understand why people find the category helpful. I'm repeating this because I just cannot fathom how you would think distributors or vendors would do better by removing categories. This is simply nonsense. I've explained so many times already. People who do like IR find it helpful obviously because it's quicker for them to find it. People who don't like IR find it helpful as well, because it helps them avoid it. It's win win. Even people with diametrically opposed taste can agree the categories are helpful. You know what I don't want to have to peruse through to find what I like? Obese grannies. Fortunately they have categories for BBW and mature. I can just avoid those. If you're into those things, well then you can be thankful they have those categories. Complaining that there is an IR category and how it's racism is like complaining that there is a BBW category and it's body shaming, or how having a Matures category is ageism. It makes zero fucking sense to look at it that way. These categories don't exist just so people can disparage and hate on them. They exist because apparently people are into that. You keep taking something which is practical and positive and trying to make it needless and negative. Zy28, do you not understand that there are many black consumers out there who enjoy IR? If IR is so negative, why would they be among its most common patrons? Do you actually think we should get rid of what they enjoy? On whose behalf? I just don't get where this grievance is coming from.
You just admitted that it exists because people also like it, and that includes black consumers. Go look on twitter at all the black profiles who celebrate when a new IR scene is announced with their favorite pornstars. As far as the history lesson goes, you will find racism everywhere. It's in Japan. It's in China. India. Brazil. Sudan. Egypt. Russia. And I find it ironic how you give the example of casting for Hitch. Yes, I have heard about that lame so-called "controversy." Do you think that Hispanic men are less racist or harbor less racial contempt at the prospect of seeing Hispanic women with black men? Good luck reconciling that misconception with the rampant Hispanic v Black violence which occurs in America. Tragically these groups have been waging war for decades and there is no love lost amid that discrimination. Gangs discriminate in public, where they have freedom to associate, and they also discriminate in prison. I guarantee you the ire of machismo kicks in when a jealous Hispanic guy sees a Hispanic women with a black dude. Of course there aren't as many Hispanics in America as Caucasoid dudes, so we don't see the examples of discrimination between Hispanic and black as being so prevalent, but it is definitely real. Some argue it's why we don't see black + Hispanic porn produced that much anymore. When the recession hit in 2008, lower economic classes were hit hardest. IR/Ethnic porn has never fully recovered. There used to be a lot more Asian and Hispanic women in IR porn, but it's not nearly at the same levels anymore. The reason white+black IR has bounced back is because whites have more disposable income and while they are not the only consumers of IR porn, it's unsurprising that white+black is their preferred type to see. Personally this is a bit disappointing, because I appreciate more than just white females. I want to see more Asian and Hispanic and Black women too. But just because I'm not getting what I personally want to see more of does not mean there is any arbitrarily hateful racist discrimination going on. It's just economics. I bet you if black and Hispanic consumers had more disposable income as whites do, we would see a lot more diversity in the IR category. Anyway, it seems more perplexing how you could act concerned about discrimination against when what this topic is about is discrimination for. The fact is, the practice puts higher value on black dicks. I've asked a few times already and no one could answer, but could you or anyone else explain how something being valued more is supposed to be perceived as negative or degrading? It's not degrading. It's upgrading.
Yes cultures are different, and I heard a discussion about how research was done showing there are more basketball courts available in predominately black communities per capita than in non-predominately black communities. Baseball fields are more common in rural areas, which means outside the suburbs, which means culturally it's more common to see white boys grow up playing that, just in general. Still I think there would be no denying there are significantly more white boys who grow up playing basketball than black boys, if by no other virtue than simple arithmetic. But even with odds in their favor, they aren't as good. Doesn't matter how hard they try, genetics only goes so far, generally speaking of course. There simply is no white Lebron or Kobe out there. But I'm not so sure you can describe that as a meritocracy, thus excusing the disproportionality in the sport, but at the same time say that the disproportionality in adult entertainment is not meritocratic. What succeeds in adult entertainment is simply based on what people like. It's just based on their personal tastes, which is largely determined by biology. No one is wrong for liking red hair or brown skin or thick thighs or big nipples or small nipples. People like what they like. That's about as pure as things get. There are no unfair advantages here. It doesn't matter how much money a woman has, if she's ugly, she's not going to arouse the ordinary male. It doesn't matter how poor a woman is, if she's fine as all outdoors, then that's who guys want to see. These things are just determined by biology. That's why no one takes the grievance about pro-sports being unfair seriously. No one even bothers complaining about that, and if they do, all it induces is eye rolling. Yes, dudes with better physical genes are unfairly advantaged in sports. So what? Not everyone can be a mountainous freak like Dirk Nowitzki or Tim Duncan. But at the same time, as a society, we don't want to see that naturally uneven playing field to be arbitrary leveled so that those with disadvantaged genes have an equal opportunity. Some folks are just lucky like that. Some call it being blessed. So what does that mean for the average man who is almost a foot shorter than the average NBA player? Are they unblessed? I'm sure some sorry dudes could wallow in self pity feeling cheated for their whole life. But it's a waste of time and not going to help improve their station in life, and nobody really cares. Try telling the average Asian guy that American football is a meritocracy. Yeah, I guess it's highly meritocratic if you win the genetic lottery. lol
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - Mar 1 2016 : 12:16PM
^Yes, and agreed on the audio.
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Zy28 Deactivated User
251 Posts 2/12
Posted - Mar 3 2016 : 1:15AM
Actually that's wrong. And they wouldn't lose money through the abolishment of the category. For example scenes with different ethnicities sell quite well without using an IR category for Asian/White pairings or Latino/White pairings. They use the aforementioned terms to sell but they don't use the phrase IR to do so.As previously stated, sports such as football and basketball are far more meritocratic than a lot of other human endeavors including porn. There are few if any barriers to entry and talent reigns supreme. Even racists can't interfere with this process to any significant degree. Nor would they risk doing so. As for team ownership and who runs the leagues that's another issue altogether as neither one is based on merit but connections and wealth. As for porn though, while one can go the amateur route it takes a lot of capital investment to have high production values for scenes and for distribution. So whoever the wealthy gatekeepers are, they hold the keys and limit access depending on what they want to see. And in a lot of cases that a very limited range of performer. As for the Asian community, most of them realize correctly that academic achievement is a far better endeavor to invest their time and effort into excelling at than physical achievement over the long haul. For one, you don't risk serious injury on a regular basis. And 2. A career based on intellectual achievement is significantly longer lasting than one based on physical achievement where one usually has to retire around the age of 40 because the body simply can't take the abuse anymore.Not trying to "honor" BHM would be best. Since they obviously can't do it. And no, pandering is worse than doing nothing at all. Also the BHM post made by that agent was based sarcasm and mockery. Not on legitimately attempting to change the industry practice of bribing girls to work with Black talent. Furthermore, the practice of paying girls more can obviously be abolished without affecting their bottom line and they know it. As for Blacked, it's a mixed bag. It's gives Black/white scenes increased prominence while also bribing girls to do such scenes, which as previously mentioned is incredibly racist. It's not a different "type" of scene, it's just a b/g scene. Also from what I've heard, no confirmation though, girls are unable to do any other such scenes before their scene is released. Edited by - Zy28 on 3/3/2016 1:16:37 AM
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - Mar 3 2016 : 2:01AM
It would be helpful if you could unpack that a little, because I don't know what specifically you are referring to.Unless Asian/White pairings or Latino/White pairings were previously categorized as IR, they don't demonstrate that producers "wouldn't lose money through the abolishment of the category."
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Rosco Fuji Deactivated User
On the licking stick, Mr. Magic Dick! 3309 Posts 2/09
Posted - Mar 3 2016 : 1:20PM
Random comment to move me along to the end of the thread.
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Rosco Fuji Deactivated User
On the licking stick, Mr. Magic Dick! 3309 Posts 2/09
Zy, you may as well complain why is media so fixated on attractive people. They put them on their magazines and in their TV shows because that's who people want to see. They spend countless hours analyzing all of this with focus groups. In the end, this is why we have so many attractive people at the center of so many TV shows and movies. It happens in black media as well. Porn is doing the same thing. It is no less meritocratic than sports. Like I said, there are aspiring athletes who can train harder than others who are more genetically gifted, but still not make the cut. Merit should reward effort right? Well that's not always the case. How many busts have we seen in the NBA, especially at center? Now, I'm not saying anyone could get into the NBA without working hard. That's essential. But we know a lot of these guys based on their performance mainly got to that position because of their size. Many can't even shoot. There's more to balling than hitting the tre, and there's many bigs who carry a team with dominant post game. But the bottom line is take the very same athlete and scale him down half a foot, or even just 3 inches, and there's no way he can compete with the same effort. He would absolutely have to put more effort into his game to compete at the same position. But the comparison is still valid because we're talking about biology. Biology also controls your libido, what drives you sexually. You can't just work hard and change it. It's not about effort. Like I said, people aren't wrong for their taste. It's biology, and that is what drives the adult ent. market. So going back to the original point, the defense against these accusations of a discriminatory industry. It's trumped up, overblown victimhood narratives. Producers just want to give people what they want. They match enthusiastic directing talent with hot performing talent which are in demand by the market. I've heard enough about these bigoted bogeymen behind the curtains. If you want to stop the extra pay for IR practice, then you've got to stop people from buying IR porn, with special interest in 1st time IR. That is what drives the practice. It is the consumers who dictate this. I don't know how many times I can reiterate this, but producers aren't very keen on throwing money away for no reason, on some "just because" hateful bigot tip. If you think the discriminatory industry is ignoring an area by engaging in this practice, then enter the arena and refuse to play ball like that, and go capitalize on it. Prove it can be done another way. Edited by - Melvyn on 3/5/2016 2:44:19 PM Edited by - Melvyn on 3/5/2016 2:45:21 PM
^ since some white females are paid more to shoot IR it was asked if the black males in there are paid more too implying some kind of discrimination , as it appears white males aren't paid more either , and females both blacks and whites are certainly paid more than males are. There's no difference in males' wages whatever they fuck
Women, and the things they allow to be done to them, is the main attraction of straight porn. Charging a higher rate to work with black men than you do for white men performing the same tasks essentially puts a tax on their blackness. Directors not specifically catering to the IR audience would be less likely to hire black male talent when it cost them less to use white male talent.
^ there are those who don't , but then again there are those black male who get paid more than the average whites because they're black even though their performances are poor. Plus if you pay me 400 bucks and earn 1,000 is a thing but if you pay me $ 400 and earn 5,000 I might want a share of what you're getting because of me. Do you think it's fair if the producers earn more because it's an IR scene but the performers don't? better the white performer wouldn't , few male talents are contract star , very few especially if you compare them to the relatively few black performers , yet there are sites whose black talents are signed and exclusive. So you think there should be a double standard , if you earn more because you're black it's OK, but if anybody does the same that's bad? Let's face it, IR is a market category, it's a matter of racism it's a matter of business, racism is there of course , but it's not always that. I have to repeat notions , Alexis Ford has a weak for blacks was almost black exclusive in her real life, yet stayed 5 years without performing any IR when she was under contract, she didn't have a choice. An IR queen like Lisa Ann begun doing IR very early in her career, yet when signed she stopped until her contract expired, again not her choice. Edited by - LCF on 3/6/2016 5:07:12 AM
On average how much more ($500, $1000, $2000) do you think white females get to shoot interracial porn? What do you think they get when they shoot their first interracial scene? Do you think charge higher for every scene after their first even when they have done multiple scenes with black male performers in the past?
^ The money really depends on the star value of the actresses or their appearance , plus you may add the exclusiveness. Blacked pays much more than any other because they also sign the star for a temporary exclusivity of six months , so since they cannot shoot IR for any other company they pay the loss the stars will suffer by refusing work.They're not paid for just shooting IR , it is a business practice to prevent competitors from shooting some stars especially the brand new ones. Today porn careers are very short some girls won't last a year and often less, so having them exclusive for a while may result as being the only owner of IR from such starlet. Also usually only the first scenes are those paid more. Many stars even superstars don't charge extra for IR.
Oh boy....This kind of discussion will keep going on and on because so many people here view porn workers like workers working in a factory who punch a time clock with set wages for specific jobs. Workers putting widgets in the boxes make "X" amount regardless of who you are may be fine and just in that type of job but you can't just apply the same type of thinking when it comes to porn or any sort of career where a person is a "free agent" (for lack of a better term) and they're being paid for what they bring to the table and how much the person paying them is willing to pay them. If a pornstar wants to charge $10,000 for their first IR anal or whatever and the person paying them is willing to pay it...That's fine. If a girl is willing to only charge $400 for their first IR scene and no studio feels they are worth that price...That's fine too. Free enterprise, supply and demand, getting paid what your worth, holding out for the best deal...all things people do all the time in other media/jobs but for some reason some people here insist on looking at porn players in some sort of very simple black and white terms that have very little to do with the realities of the business but are just based on what they've decided is "right" or "wrong".
Pretty sure it's illegal for independent contractors to charge a higher rate based on the race of their coworkers, at least in California. Incest is another popular niche in porn. I don't know if white female talent charge a higher rate to do those scenes, but they don't charge a higher rate to work with white male talent. Edited by - joey numbers on 3/6/2016 12:39:43 PM
My original point was since the white women get paid more to work with black men both parties should be paid more than the standard rate. Especially since w\o the black part of the equation there is no ir. I understand black women and white men don't get paid more for ir but that applies to both parties...which is the point I was trying to make. Also I get that studios that don't normally shoot ir wouldn't want to pay more for ir and that's fine. Even if they pay the women more than the regular b/g rate but not the men(which I'm not sure that's the case because usually they get girls that have already done a ton of ir).
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Rosco Fuji Deactivated User
On the licking stick, Mr. Magic Dick! 3309 Posts 2/09
Posted - Mar 6 2016 : 2:17PM
Mmmmmm, I think we can almost coin a new phrase based on this post or maybe a new first time I\R series, "Collecting the Black Tax" or something along those lines.
I'm pretty sure it's also illegal to force anybody to have sex with somebody else out her/his agreement and even more it's illegal to force anybody to do anything that could harm her or him , if you're paired with someone with a dick the size and thickness of your forearm arm there's a risk to get hurt.
It wouldn't really make sense, because white females only get that extra pay for their FIRST IR. After that it's just standard rates. Since pretty much every black male talent you've ever seen in porn has done IR, it would not apply that they get extra. If they did then they'd make a ludicrous killing. Imagine getting paid extra for every IR you did. That's where most black male talent are getting work these days, so pretty much every scene they do, they would get extra? Nah. They wish. I do think if the brothas played their cards right, they could get more than they are. Big dick black studs are in very high demand, and there's very few because of the relatively small supply based on national demographics. Honestly, these guys could take over if they unionized. Think about it. I think that would suck for IR fans though because it would mean the overall rate for an IR scene would be even higher, which means studios would have to lower their rate of production, meaning less IR overall for the consumers. But if Lex, Shane, Mandingo, Flash, Rico, etc, if they all formed a union, they could demand even more. If they made a black male union/agency and they consolidated all the major black male talent, they could really take over. At the very least, I think they would be able to get some of that extra pay for a dodger's first IR. Studios would get desperate though and try and get any non-union brotha out there. They'd be like "Yo, Mr. UPS"
This is incorrect. For many agencies, they'll negotiate a much higher rate for the girl's first IR, but even after the first, IR is still charged at a premium. I don't know if it has changed, but 5 or so years ago the common amount was an extra $100 compared to a girl's b/g rate if she was working with a non-black male.
All pornstars aren't created equal. All movies aren't equally appealing to the masses. All movies aren't as equally profitable. All studios don't have equal amounts of money for production and to pay performers. So it makes no sense that all performers should be paid equally for any and all movies they appear in. We don't know how much and black male performer is making, so we can't assume he's somehow underpaid. If there are black performers with exclusive contracts it's pretty safe to say they got the best deal they could and they may very well be making more than some other black performers and some white ones. Lex and Shorty Mac are two black performers. Does anyone think they should have the same pay rate? If so why? I heard more than once female pornstars say they've never really worked with a subpar male performer because of their higher pay rate the studio won't take a chance on hiring a lesser male performer to work with them because they want the best return on their investment with hiring that girl. That tells you that no only do some girls get paid more but obviously some guys are more valuable and also get paid more. Bigger studios like BLACKED, JJ, ELEGANT ANGEL, etc., are more profitable and have more money to spend on a scene/movie vs a smaller studio like BLACK MARKET or whoever so they have more money and clout to make deals and pay extra for talent. Some lines/themes of movies sell better than others so paying a girl more is worth it to them. Some performers are in more demand than others so paying certain girls more to have them in certain types of movies is worth it for them. While some of you are fixated on skin color the people producing movies are mostly concerned with what product or girls are most profitable for them. Since in this instance IR is hot commodity there's deals being made on both sides to make as much money as they can from it. Business as usual. This goes on all the time in business. It's often not a race issue per se but some people insist on seeing it in those terms. Guess what? Tom Cruise gets paid a certain high dollar amount for his big movies. If the people doing the next black comedy FRIDAY movie and offer him a fraction of his usual salary because they don't have the money and Tom turns them down is that racist or business? If another studio had a subpar movie script and think the movie could be a hit by having Tom Cruise star in it because he can put assses in the seats and offers to pay him way more than he usually makes is that a horrible thing? Is Tom wrong for doing that movie? As long as some of insist on looking at all this based on skin color and nothing more you'll continue to find fault with people who really aren't doing anything wrong other than trying to make the best living they can while their supposed "fans" who have nothing at stake sit and judge them. It's amazing the fans who sit in judgment and count other people's money. Especially since so many of them aren't even paying for the things they're complaining about.
^^ I think in the days since we've had a few more agencies not do it, and some women come out and say that they don't/won't do it outside of their agency making a statement, but there are still some agencies that do (the BHM thing being specific proof of it). Though, economically, if you're an agency that represents black male talent, it's actually in your best interest all around to have your female performers not charge extra, because it would/could/should mean more work for your black male performers (you'd rather have the money from the black male performer shooting a whole extra scene than the couple hundred from the female performer for the scene). Edited by - whatsatelephonebill on 3/6/2016 6:22:10 PM
I think that's fair and reasonable. The girl might be considered worth the extra pay if she has the ability to attract fans. And if she has that type of drawing power it's only fair she gets paid as such. Not all girls are worth the extra pay past their first IR and if they aren't it will become clear in time. If a girl is a huge draw in the IR genre why shouldn't she get paid what she's her worth to the genre/niche. There shouldn't be a cap on how much a girl can make in any genre if she has the fanbase that moves product and makes the studio money. I think it's funny that some people don't realize that their "everyone should be paid the same regardless" mentality would only lead to lots of crappy porn being made, some girls hardly working at all, and lots of pornstars leaving the industry.
^ Except that I can't think of a single solitary performer who is "huge in the IR genre" without being a popular performer overall. In which case they will/would raise their overall rates, and not just their IR ones. The real question when it comes to whether or not a performer should be paid more for a non-first IR scene than a non-first non-IR b/g scene is whether there's any real proof that IR scene #18 will sell better than regular b/g scene #18. You might want to point to Blacked as evidence that it does, but Blacked focuses very heavily on getting their performers first IR scenes, to the point where I'm not sure they've put out a DVD in the past 6 months that didn't have someone's first IR (or first IR threesome in terms of their threesome DVDs) in it.
pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world 12377 Posts 9/07
Posted - Mar 6 2016 : 6:53PM
I hardly think the one time bigger payout for first IR and the extra $100 a scene being eliminated would have much impact on the rate of production or the quality of it.
Draxxx, I will say this and leave it at that. I never said or implied that all performers should be paid be the same. I get that diferent performers get paid different rates for different acts. I'm ok with that. But I don't think it's coincidence that ir includes black by default and yet the women(in bm/wf ir) get paid more for these scenes but not the male talent(regardless if it's first time only). You say this and that about certain performers being more valuable than the next... In ir the black male talent is THE most valuable since it wouldn't exist without them. But I feel like whatever we're saying is going in one ear and out the other. Doesn't matter really.
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - Mar 6 2016 : 8:09PM
I completely agree. Firsts are expected to be more profitable than ordinary scenes, so in that case a higher rate is not unreasonable. Same goes for showcases. However, I don't know that a run of the mill IR scene with a popular IR performer is more profitable than a non-IR regular b/g.
That's not even 10% of what the typical scene cost is for a female. No one has the time to worry about this anymore. No one outside the industry anyway, and anyone inside it, well, you get paid to fuck. You don't like it, then learn to type.
"You have sacrificed nothing and no one." 3689 Posts 8/10
Posted - Mar 6 2016 : 8:30PM
Maybe everybody needs to stop thinking like "ewww... they had to pay the girl more to perform with a Black man." Really, IR fanboys are so into a girl's "first IR" that she is able to capitalize on that and get a little extra spiff for a change. The studios make out well too, which is why they're willing to pay for it. As far as the studs go, whether they're White, Black, Latino, what have you, have you ever heard of any stud getting paid extra to do IR? Or, anal? Of course not. However, since an A-list girl's first-time IR is probably with a better studio, the scene itself probably pays a better rate (for Black studs) than doing the routine Black-on-Black or mope-squad stuff for the smaller studios. Good for them. Any time the girls can come out a little bit ahead, I'm all for it! If it's win/win for everybody, all the better. And, finishing with the "ewww" thing... For the girls -- and their boyfriends -- who just don't want to do IR, there's almost no amount of money that's going to convince them otherwise. When you start talking about "thousands" of dollars extra, there a very few A-list girls that could make the economics of it work for everybody, and even fewer studios that could afford it to begin with. As an example -- and totally unrelated to IR -- I think it was Darko who explained to "fans" badgering as to "why don't you ever use Julia Ann" in your movies that, "he couldn't afford Julia's rate for the type movies he makes," (although he believed she's worth every penny for the right projects). And now, for most of us in 2016, does IR still carry any social stigma? Do young girls in their teens and twenties give a shit? Remember how "Don't ask/Don't tell" became "Don't ask/Don't care"? Gay marriage? Yawn... So, if you enjoy seeing IR, enjoy it. But, please, just leave all the racial drama at the door.
I have no idea what this post is getting at. Are you saying that my claim is incorrect? Or are you saying that girls shouldn't be paid extra for IR scenes (after the first)? Or are you saying that if they are paid at a premium no one cares?
For most black male performers the bulk of their income comes from shooting IR since black on black isn't as popular and from what I can tell isn't shot by the major studios as much. So if the top black male players are in demand or are the favs of certain directors or are under contract, why is it so hard to believe they are getting paid accordingly? Their overall rate has probably been adjusted and they get paid that that higher rate for all the IR they shoot. It's not like the women who make new deals for their firsts, or showcases. Most people don't view the guys as the main draw. A director can get away with using the same guy over and over again but if they did that with the women most fans would lose their minds. If BLACKED or any studio has their roster of "go to" guys why is it so hard to believe they aren't paid more than they may get elsewhere for their services? Because they don't talk about it? Yeah, you need the black male performer to make an IR scene. The black performer knows this, the director/studio knows this. So their rate is adjusted for their IR work for those studios who uses their services and that rate probably remains constant whether it's a new white girls shooting her first IR or the vet performer IR fans has been waiting to do IR. Just because the guys in porn don't get the attention the women get regarding pay rates doesn't mean they're not getting more for their services when it's warranted. But I feel like whatever I'm saying is going in one ear and out the other. Doesn't matter really.
I'm saying the whole complaint about this practice is ridiculous. It assumes everyone is racist, including the performers, including the producers, and including the consumers - and these consumers are not just white. They are black and Hispanic, Asian, and everything else. There is nothing wrong with it. People want to assign blame when there's nothing blameworthy. I bet if you examined the fashion industry, you would find white models make more than any others. And females make 5, 10, and 20 times as much as males in this industry. But NO ONE COMPLAINS HOW THIS IS SEXIST! Because it all comes down to WHAT CONSUMERS WANT.
Jules distributes for Blacked, so if his partnership can't help arrange things, he will probably take her up on it for his own directed movies. I would not be surprised in the least to see her do a scene with Prince soon, if indeed what you report is true. Where did she say this? Twitter?
