^ I seriously doubt that no fans cared about it or noticed until the industry started pointing it out. What is possible is that there was a small fan base that would/did care, and companies noticed it, so they started marketing it for those people, and realized that a lot more fans cared about it than they thought, it's just that most weren't actually aware enough to find out when it was happening (because you have to remember that advertising firsts is a thing that existed well before social media, when the only way to find out about these things before they released was to read about it or see an ad for it in a magazine). And then, on top of that, once the internet and social media became a thing (starting with MySpace back in the day), it (the idea of promoting firsts) blew up, because you could get the info out to tons of people very quickly and very cheaply, and even direct them to exactly where they needed to go to buy/see it. Basically, it became a very easy way to stand out in a sea of companies/content trying to grab people's attention (and that is what it still is to this day). Basically, a small subset of fans started noticing, industry reacted to said small subset, and in doing so alerted a bunch more fans who did care but not enough to seek the knowledge out directly. And that's how we got where we are today.
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - Oct 1 2015 : 10:40PM
^I'm sure that fans have always noticed when a familiar pornstar who did not previously shoot with black men started shooting with black men, but I personally don't remember there being a lot of fan generated hype centered on the pornstar's first scene with a black man in the past. I think the industry narrowed down the focus of fans from the more generalized "Now she's shooting with black men" to the more specific "She shot with a black man." It's only a theory of course. I could be wrong.
^ I feel like another part of the reasoning for that is how long scenes used to take to come out, and how specific we're seeing exclusivity contracts get in the past few years. Like, I don't actually know this for certain, but I feel like 10 years ago, we weren't seeing girls sign contracts saying they wouldn't shoot another IR scene for months after they shot their first because of exclusivity. Someone like Jules Jordan could probably come in and say whether that was the case, though. It would just be a girl saying she's available, and the producer shooting it. But if she's generally available, that means someone else can shoot another one right after you do, and because these scenes were taking a long time to get out, it made it much more of a possibility for them to sneak up and release right at the same time, or even slightly earlier than you. So you could have her first shot, but you couldn't guarantee you would have her first released, and the truth is that first released is what the fans really care about.
I made the exact same point Mimefreak did earlier in this thread. It's a proven fact that marketing works, you beat it in people's heads long enough that something is a big deal, they'll start to treat it as such.
"Facialized Vol. 7" 2021 AVN Awards Winner: Best Oral Movie 9308 Posts 9/13
Posted - Nov 7 2015 : 12:15AM
[bump] Suddenly, IR seems to be all the rage, as evidenced by the new site/studio from Mason and O.L. Entertainment: Dark X: Hardcore Interracial Porn.
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - Nov 8 2015 : 12:04AM
^Even Brazzers, BRAZZERS (!), has now shot a "first IR," but I'm not sure what effect this apparent boom in the demand for IR will have on the "waiting" IR strategy. I don't think that we're going to suddenly have a situation in which most young women enter the industry and immediately place IR on their ticket, but perhaps we'll see an increase in performers who last long enough shooting their first scene with a black man in their second year in the industry. I'd like to think that the strategy of waiting for years on end will come to be perceived as bad business as IR grows in popularity, but it's too early to say. Edited by - misspornUSA on 11/8/2015 12:05:56 AM
I believe Kevin Moore said in the Lexington Steele thread that because of the new interest in all things interracial, it's actually driving the price up and making some girls want to holdout more.
Naughty America shot Noelle Easton's first IR scene a couple years ago, and they don't have the budget or the notoriety that Brazzers has. I don't think they fact that they shot a first IR really means much of anything, but the fact that they've shot more BM/WF scenes in the past couple months than in the year before that does.
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Mass Facialties Deactivated User
"Facialized Vol. 7" 2021 AVN Awards Winner: Best Oral Movie 9308 Posts 9/13
Posted - Nov 10 2015 : 1:38AM
Yeah, that makes sense. Plus, I've noticed that Blacked tends to sign most of the girls they film to IR-exclusive contracts; does that really do the IR genre any good when one company is restricting girls from doing IR for any other studio? As for this increased interest in IR, in the grand scheme of things, is it really that good of a thing? I mean, it seems as though black guys in the industry are "fetishized" now more than ever before when, ideally, we should be getting closer to the point where sex scenes with a black man and white woman are viewed simply as B/G scenes instead of being given a "separate but equal" label.
^I don't really look at Blacked as a gateway into IR. Just look at the site, most of the girls have only done IR for them and most are far past the "6 month" rule that Blacked imply. I don't see that changing anytime soon because Blacked, Black is better, teens love black cocks, dogfarts, and now DarkX all treat black male/white female sex as a taboo subject in porn, on the same level as anal or dps.
^^ You say that like fetishization is a bad thing. Everything in porn is fetishized. The real question isn't about getting to the point where it isn't, but getting to the point where the scenes even appeal to people that don't have the particular fetish that the scene caters to. And I do think we may be getting closer to that.
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Mass Facialties Deactivated User
"Facialized Vol. 7" 2021 AVN Awards Winner: Best Oral Movie 9308 Posts 9/13
Posted - Nov 11 2015 : 2:56AM
^ Just a hunch on my part, but I think a lot of non-white performers in the biz, men and women, don't exaclty love the idea of being fetishized because of their race/ethnicity.
^ Scenes are fetishized based on nearly every sexual act that's contained within them. Performers are fetishized because of their hair color, their breast size, their ass size, their age, and just about anything else that manifests itself physically. Expecting skin color/race/ethnicity to not be one of those things is just unrealistic. Maybe we get to a point at some nebulous point in the future where race and ethnicity are never mentioned in scenes (there's already lots of scenes like that out there already, it's just that almost no one mentions them), but that's not going to stop people from "othering" these performers, and either placing them on a pedestal or denigrating them. And for that to change is going to take a change in society at large more than it'll take a change in the industry in particular.
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DiamondJackman Deactivated User
Straight From My Brown Balls, Using Good Pussy 501 Posts 10/15
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - Nov 12 2015 : 11:31AM
The market decides what is fetishized. Blackness is fetishized because it is profitable to fetishize it, same as it is profitable to fetishize big asses, etc. Black men in the industry might not love the idea of being fetishized, but I bet that they love getting paid. A big part of the reason that Flash Brown has a contract right now is that a sizable number of consumers fetishize his blackness. A big part of the reason that Rob Piper is getting so much work right is that a sizable number of consumers fetishize his blackness. I'm sure that there are pornstars who don't love being viewed as a big ass that happens to have a body attached to it, but at the same time I doubt that these people are lamenting the box covers they get because of that fetishization. It's how the business works.
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - Nov 14 2015 : 1:10AM
Joymii.com recently shot an IR scene starring Rilynn Rae. That's yet another erotic porn site looking to get in on the game, like Colette.com and Babes.com before them.
These new IR sites are great for us IR fans. Also, a Cassidy Banks scene with a Brother would be considered a 1st what? If she's waiting for a bigger payday she had better start now and not get caught out there like Abella Danger who said she was waiting for Jules Jordan to shoot her "1st IR anal" After the new IR sites came with a few IR/Anal 1st...she went to DarkX. Devon stated on her twitter that she was going to do an IR scene after all these years...after saying years ago that she received threats from her white fan base if she did IR.
Maybe the advantage of the rise in IR sites and scenes will lead to the genre becoming more normalized and less fetishsized, and in turn reduce the effectiveness of being able to hold out for a "1st IR." It seems one of the big contributing factors to performers not shooting IR was the degrading manner in which it was handled by the handful that did do IR. There will always be a place for that type of IR scenes, but they will lose some of their territory among the rise of more tasteful IR scenes.
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - Jan 5 2016 : 6:57PM
^^Perhaps Devon did receive threats, but I'm not really inclined to believe that she waited to shoot with a black man because of that. She was waiting for the most advantageous time in her career to shoot her "first IR" and now she's decided that time has arrived. I think it's a smart move to be skeptical of the excuses. Edited by - misspornUSA on 1/5/2016 6:58:01 PM
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - Jan 5 2016 : 7:20PM
Doesn't the boom in IR sites actually reinforce IR as something that is distinct from normal b/g porn? It seems to me that the normalization of IR is more likely to occur as regular porn sites shoot more IR scenes.This is a generalization. For example, what was so degrading about the first IRs that Jules Jordan shot? If LCF shows up, he can easily list multiple websites, directors, and performers who were active pre-Blacked and did not participate in "degrading" IR. Perhaps he already has on this thread. "IR is degrading" has long been a poor excuse, and I regard it as highly unlikely that most of the pornstars who used that excuse were being honest.
Looks like you're right. I'm just thinking she waited just a little bit too long. Devon doing IR now doesn't ring my bell as it would have say 15 years ago. That's just me.
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Mass Facialties Deactivated User
"Facialized Vol. 7" 2021 AVN Awards Winner: Best Oral Movie 9308 Posts 9/13
Posted - Jan 7 2016 : 12:15AM
^ ^ I totally agree with you on both points, misspornUSA.
A lot of these girls have good PR teams to hash out pre-made excuses. I've seen several dodgers I wont air out basically write scripted essays about their "moral perspective" as to why they refused to shoot IR and they almost all sound like the same copy-paste lawyer statements. I wonder how many threats Sasha Grey, Tori Black, Belladonna, Asa Akira, Anikka Albrite, Riley Reid, Flower Tucci, Gianna Michaels, et all received? My adage always was, if you are good at performing, it doesnt matter who you shoot with unless the two of you have bad chemistry altogether, at the end of the day, an exciting masterpiece will always trump some generic bland scene and that goes both ways. Some girls hold out initially for more money and I understand that, because they arent elite yet but once you reach a certain plateau, whether via longevity or stardom and you still duck IR like the plague, then I raise skepticism on your beliefs. This is why I dont mind girls like Audrey Bitoni or Jynx Maze because they never strayed from the notion that they will never shoot IR AND they dont try to double dip and promote themselves to that particular audience(appearing in rap videos, hip hop websites and magazines, using different dialogue when in certain crowds, etc). It's the ones that try to be deceptive because they look at us as dollar signs and not as people. IR wasnt sophisticated back then? Like guys like Lex, Mandingo, Jack Napier, Sledgehammer, Sean Michaels, LT didnt exist back then. Big time studios like Elegant, Evil, Jules, Devils, New Sensations, 3rd Degree, Brazzers, Wicked just started doing interracial in 2014 or something? I dont mind that Devon waited so long, because in the end, we will never know the real story unless we get in her mind. There are just three factors I use to judge the newcomers: 1. Cannot have too many significant physical changes or surgeries 2. Cannot be a one and done deal or grand finale of their career(exception would be something like Alina Li who wanted out of the indsutry but decided to give fans one IR scene before leaving) 3. MUST actually exhibit pleasure and put on a good performance(e.g. Amy Reid's disaster with Jules) If Devon still looks hot, takes it like a champ, and shoots a few more equally great scenes. She's good. Didnt women like Julia Ann and Lisa Ann come up during the "Penthouse/Vivid" era where they were shunned from interracial and once they got out of their contracts, they became even bigger stars?
Thing is I've never really cared about the chicks who avoid IR. I don't go hunting for them...I just ran across Devon's post on Twitter and responded to her saying that I saw Bree Olsen do IR in her prime and Bree is a fine ass woman. I saw Brianna Love in her prime do IR Brianna love is on goddess status...Kagney Linn Karter...that's all I need to say. Some of the baddest women did scenes with Brothers.....Devon chose not to. that's her business. Just know that when you come in at 40 or 50 and want to do your first IR...I guess there is a GILF market out there.
None but they weren't known when they did , there's no sense in threatening someone who already did IR when they become famous , Asa Akira isn't white , the rednecks don't give any fuck to her fucking black dudes
I'm sorta indifferent about Devon as a performer in general...but I find the whole complaint about performers who wait until after their "prime" interesting. What's considered "prime"? When a performer's younger? At the peak of her career/popularity? When you think she looked best? In the case of Devon it's totally understandable why she didn't or didn't need to do IR at the peak of her career. And if she had done IR how good would it have been? She was shooting very tame generic sex scenes back then. I'd much rather see her do it now when she's a sexually better and more daring performer than back then. I'm not sure what she looks like now but she'll probably give a much better IR performance today than back then. My definition of "prime" is different than what others consider "prime" I guess. I think performers like Julia Ann, Lisa Ann, Tiffany Mynx, were/are in their "prime" later in their career. Lisa and Julia's more current stuff blows their old stuff out of the water. Ryan Conner was good back then but her current stuff totally blows it away. When people say they're gonna pass on a performer doing their first IR because they're past their "prime" and have lost interest...it's their loss. That's their business and they are free to watch whatever they want but I think some of those people are more concerned about going with the set of rules they've made up for pornstars in their head moreso than watching what could be a good performance.
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - Jan 10 2016 : 11:03AM
Serious question: Has any pornstar ever claimed to have taken a sudden financial hit after she began shooting with black men? I'm not talking about trolls, I'm talking about actual money, as in a pornstar was bringing in a certain amount every month right up to the release of her "first IR" and then her income took a dip.
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - Jan 10 2016 : 11:53AM
If a pornstar can get money and publicity by appearing in a hip hop video or magazine, what rational reason does she have to turn down the opportunity? That a pornstar does not shoot with black men does not mean that she does not want black fans. Why wouldn't she? We should also keep in mind that many pornstars who have not shot with black men nonetheless have black friends, listen to hip-hop and, yes, date and sleep with black men. They have no reason to distance themselves from blacks because of how they are handling their career. Porn is a business, that means who you fuck and what sex acts you perform are generally, primarily, about $$$ and career (which is redundant of course, since the point of a career is $$$). A pornstar might look at a black man and see dollar signs, but how many times has a producer, director, or talent agency looked at her and seen dollar signs as well? That's what the business is. It's an industry, not a charity, and that means that people are trying to get paid. I'm not going to say that the porn way of thinking is moral or ethical and I'm not going to defend it, but I understand it and I doubt that for many pornstars it's about dehumanazing black men.
I have no idea what the current climate is on such things but I've heard there was a time when with certain girls doing IR they wouldn't get headlining dancing gigs at some strip clubs in certain areas or that a certain type of fan would go to. Also, there are still guys who don't want to have sex with women who bang black guys. So it's possible that could cut into their escort business. How much of that and to what extent that's true these days I have no idea. I think the porn audience and the country in general has changed over time about such things. And such things won't affect every girl equally. Sara Jay's audience and career path is different than Alexis Texas'. I'm pretty sure there's part of the audience who loves the fact that Alexis Texas hasn't done IR. Plus, it's hard to say a girl can lose money in those cases because the porn industry and audience is so big that if a girl looses their appeal to a segment of their audience there are other groups they can appeal to. If a stripclub in the south decides they don't want her there are plenty of others who will openly accept her. If she looses a couple of clients because of IR she may gain a few because of it. But again for some girls loosing that audience is no big deal, for others it's their bread and butter and it might have a bigger affect on their ability to create income. It depends on how big a star they are and where they live.
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - Jan 10 2016 : 3:09PM
^Those are good points. I hadn't thought to question how/if feature dancing and escorting might be affected. Edited by - misspornUSA on 1/10/2016 3:10:56 PM
The risk of fanbase rejection is definitely real and sad to witness. You can see a few people on Rachel Roxxx's latest twitter thread saying how they're glad she doesn't do IR (there are less tasteful responses that I won't mention). Meanwhile, you have someone expressing disappointment that Leah Gotti and Alex Grey 'went black' on their feed.
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - Jan 10 2016 : 11:18PM
^There are two kinds of fans: 1. Fans who pay for porn. 2. "Fans" who do not pay for porn. Now, if an increase in trolling correlates with a decrease in a pornstar's profitability, then that's something to look at. Otherwise, who cares?
Well, yeah - exactly. I just get a bit miffed when I see bigots make statements like that online (fans or otherwise - not all of them are just trolls).
^ Me either , but what does matter is the perceived danger , if a pornstar gets the impression that most of her fans won't be happy with her doing IR she may retain out of fear , sho couldn't be sure she could recover those lost with new ones , also she can't possibly know who actually pays for porn from those who don't. Other than that there are those who are members of her site , those who are fond of webcamming and so on , each star has her own business path each of which with its negativities. On this very forum I had argued with a guy who came complaining he couldn't even buy memberships to white sites because he was getting a lot of ad banners with black dicks on them and he wanted to boycott each site doing that or shooting IR , he intended to invite us to join his crusade. You can see on this very board how many guys are offended by lez stars doing BG , many are very aggressive , very unforgiving, the reason why you can see those but not those who complain about IR is that racism isn't tolerated here , those angry with lez stars doing boys aren't racist
Edited by - LCF on 1/11/2016 4:41:15 PM
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fredgee Deactivated User
350 Posts 12/13
Posted - Jan 11 2016 : 6:44PM
It seems like studios are not listening so if a actress does a particular scene it does not matter what the buyers think it is about a few people in high positions. That has to change or porn will become about a agenda not about giving customers what they want.
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - Jan 11 2016 : 7:52PM
^^Perhaps pornstars should make a better effort to obtain reliable data rather than making career choices based on unfounded assumptions about who their paying fans are. Not that I think that this problem is a particularly common one anyway. I don't take the fandom excuse at face value for one second.
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Dirk Love Deactivated User
130 Posts 11/15
Posted - Jan 11 2016 : 8:33PM
Speaking of this topic I saw this YouTube, and she have a good point https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F16-5OKQElw
That sentiment I take issue with. If a performer wishes to not shoot scenes with black men for whatever the reason may be that is their prerogative. However, engaging in a practice that detrimentally affects black performers while simultaneously trying to cultivate a following among black viewers smacks of hypocrisy. It may not be their intent, but the effect of what they're doing is essentially saying "I'll happily take your money, but I certainly have no desire to work with any of you". As you correctly pointed out, it is a business. But business practices that specifically harm one group makes it all the more vexing to observe that person attempting to curry favor among that same group. Ultimately, it's up to those fans to not support such a practice. But that doesn't negate the fact that it's a hypocritical practice.
I'm saying that there's a distinction between simply promoting oneself, and targeting specific forums/outlets that largely cater to a certain demographics. And it's highly reductive to suggest I'm claiming she shouldn't market herself to any individual she wouldn't have sex with. I'm saying if you're going to exclude an entire social demographic from your business practice it's rather hypocritical to try and cultivate support among that demographic. There's nothing stopping them from doing so, but if that's the case they shouldn't be surprised that they get vocal criticism from it
Posted - Oct 1 2015 : 11:46AM
