If i recall well her entry in her blog was a reply to someone but I couldn't find the original exchange so , you may be right about the reaching on my part but still it's worst than being arrested every single word you say will be interpreted against you and used the same way
FWIW, not every one of her points was without merit. From what I recall of her blog entry, I actually think most of her initial assertions were accurate, however her conclusions or proscriptions were where I took exception. Basically I could agree with most of her premises, and I understood where she was coming from, but I still found the judgments misguided. And yes, at least one of her premises, as asserted, was quite off the mark, as MissPornUSA pointed out. But it's water under the bridge now. She's done IR. I don't think it's good to hold grudges over this type of trifling thing. You don't have to praise her as a champion for IR, but I do hope people have learned from the Carter Cruise fan-flack fiasco not to antagonize these performers anymore. It's bad for everyone. It's insulting to them and it makes IR fans look bad.
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - May 3 2016 : 1:38PM
^Personally I think that it is reasonable to criticize pornstars who allege that most IR porn involves hard raceplay, as long as the critics don't go over the top into asshole territory. EDIT: Actually I think that the criticism has helped kill off the hard raceplay excuse. You mentioned Carter Cruise, and it's notable that she started off with this excuse, got a barrage of criticism in response (judging from her thread, the criticism of Carter on the question of IR did not begin in earnest until then), and quickly backed off from that excuse. Personally I have a much easier time believing that Carter made an innocent mistake than I do Brandi, but the point remains that she dropped that excuse with speed and pornstars are unlikely to give that excuse today. Edited by - misspornUSA on 5/3/2016 1:54:22 PM
On the topic of bigger pay, I wonder if male performers charge more to perform in double vaginal or double anal scenes, not that there's anything wrong w/ dicks touching.
I dont think theres anything wrong with waiting on IR as long as you dont wait too long. Its smart business. You shouldnt come into the biz doing EVERYTHING at once. Got to give the fans something to look forward to. www.dickdrainers.com
Hmm, in looking at a number of her Twitter comments I'd say "well informed" is quite a stretch. But, that's neither here nor there I guess
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DiamondJackman Deactivated User
Straight From My Brown Balls, Using Good Pussy 501 Posts 10/15
Posted - May 7 2016 : 6:55AM
.....and she also made it clear as day that she wasn't INTERESTED in doing IR, until Greg came along with a bag full of money, which she then denied was the reason she suddenly found an interest in IR. Edited by - Diamondjackman on 5/7/2016 6:57:35 AM
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - May 7 2016 : 10:56AM
^We've already had this discussion. I think the problem is that you think waiting is only or primarily about the money. I thought so too, but I changed my mind as I encountered more information.
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DiamondJackman Deactivated User
Straight From My Brown Balls, Using Good Pussy 501 Posts 10/15
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - May 7 2016 : 11:44AM
^Information that I've already shared with you. Pacing your firsts is currently considered a good strategy for career longevity in the US industry. Carter is a very good example. She quickly blew through her firsts and it made sense for her to hold off on IR for a bit.
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - May 7 2016 : 11:52AM
I should add that Carter could have easily held off on IR for years, like Riley did with anal and DP. IR consumers should consider themselves lucky that she didn't do that.
^ I will never consider myself "lucky" that my race (and all the painful history of systemic oppression that comes with it) was used in some manner as a bargaining chip for some white person to make more money. Sorry if that makes me sound callous. But I just can't do it. There are a lot of ways that I'm lucky in life. But that ain't one of them.
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - May 7 2016 : 1:27PM
^I never said that black people should consider themselves lucky. I am speaking about IR fans, regardless of race, in their capacity as fans of the genre.
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - May 7 2016 : 1:36PM
^If it does not please you that Carter did not wait longer to shoot IR because you are a black man, I don't see what that has to do with your being a fan. Actually, I think that it would be perfectly within reason for you to feel lucky as a fan and disappointed as a black man.
^^ Is that related to something Carter said or to the whole idea of the thread itself? Of course I wouldn't even try to discuss over what a black man should or shouldn't find offensive or irritating , it's not up to me I'm white and European I'm well aware I could never understand what that means. I do get your point though Edited by - LCF on 5/7/2016 1:39:19 PM
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - May 7 2016 : 1:40PM
^^^When Riley Reid's showcase was announced, there were plenty of people who were happy about the showcase while being disappointed that she waited. I don't see a contradiction there. An IR fan could easily feel happy that a pornstar didn't wait longer to shoot IR while at the same time remaining irritated that she waited at all, and a black IR fan could add another level of discomfort to that while still considering herself or himself lucky that Carter didn't hold off for years.
^ the black man and the viewer aren't separate entities , you can't forget about it especially when you live in places where everybody make sure you don't forget that you're black. I can watch cuckold themed scenes but not those with heavy humiliation and raceplay against white , no matter who is the actress in there, I can't ignore that I'm white
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - May 7 2016 : 1:52PM
^Do you think that it is possible for a black fan of IR who is also a critic of the current IR strategy to be happy that a pornstar shot IR earlier rather than later while simultaneously being unhappy that she didn't shoot IR from the get-go?
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DiamondJackman Deactivated User
Straight From My Brown Balls, Using Good Pussy 501 Posts 10/15
^^ I don't know , it's a matter of sensitivity on the reason why , I'm not black, I can't tell ,also I don't know what is his issue exactly , the notion of the bigger payday or Carter Cruise herself.
My sentiment exactly. If a starlet wants to use it as a bargaining chip to extend their career and/or get a higher paycheck, fine. But I simply do not accept the premise that I should just somehow be grateful that they deigned to be filmed having sex with a black man.
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Canadian_Cindy Deactivated User
1102 Posts 2/15
Posted - May 9 2016 : 2:41AM
I have argued this point on ADT many times and got met with a lot of negativity. People here, for the most part, don't understand the business concept of spacing out your "firsts". let's look at Morgan Lee for example. Just an amazing woman and just now after a couple of years did her first DP's and now a DAP. She waited two years and probably got a mint (relatively speaking to today's porn world), for the scenes. You got to pace it out or you wake up after two years and have nothing left to do and hard to get work if you have already done 18 double anals and 15 gangbangs. I feel the best for business in US porn is to space out everything over about 3 years. Then after that, just basically let it rip and do anything and everything until you run out of work. "Firsts" command a lot of money if you have been in the industry for a while; not so much if you are new with a tiny fanbase and nobody knows much about you yet. This isn't 10 years ago when there was so much paid work; being smart and saavy with your porn career is more important than it has ever been if setting yourself up with financial security is important Edited by - Canadian_Cindy on 5/9/2016 2:42:48 AM
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DiamondJackman Deactivated User
Straight From My Brown Balls, Using Good Pussy 501 Posts 10/15
Posted - May 9 2016 : 7:10AM
^"Pacing" my ass! Belladonna, Sasha Grey etc did extreme acts right from the early part of the careers.
I think it's bullshit to put interracial sex in the same category as anal and dp's and gangbang's. You pace your career with that shit but still do ir and the star still has other "firsts" to pace their career with.
They don't understand because they don't want to. All some fans care about is what they want and they want all that stuff now. Pornstars have careers to worry about and how to best manage that career. There are fans who just see porn girls as nothing more sexbots who supposed go give them what they want. Pornstar longevity isn't something they care about because after they get what they want they get bored with that girl and move on to the next. There's no one size fits all career game plan that works for every girl. Some grls can get away with doing everything from the beginning and some can't. In any case a pornstar should do what they think is best for them do what it takes to make the best career choices and not worry about fans who probably aren't contributing to their career anyway.
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - May 9 2016 : 9:56AM
There's no point in looking back to a different era of porn, and denying the reality that exists now. The industry was different here then, just as it continues to be different in Europe. Do you think that all of the many, many pornstars who pace their career are deluded? None of them have ever heard of two most of the most famous pornstars in American history?
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - May 9 2016 : 10:07AM
It's not bullshit. It's objective reality. "First DP" is a thing and so is "first IR."We already went over this on page 26. If you as an individual don't attach any unique importance to a pornstar's "first IR", great, but that doesn't change the fact that you are outnumbered by consumers who think differently.Why, because you say so? Edited by - misspornUSA on 5/9/2016 10:08:49 AM
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - May 9 2016 : 10:28AM
I think that a lot of members have been spoiled by gonzo era porn. I have too, but not to the extent that I deny how much the industry has changed since then.
Even if I try to remove my race from the equation, the idea feels off. For example, saying JAV fans should feel lucky that Misty Stone was willing to have sex with Asian men on film doesn't sit well with me. I'm grateful these women are willing to do porn, but it seems messed up that anyone should feel lucky that they're willing to perform with a particular race.
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - May 9 2016 : 1:31PM
^First IR is analogous to other firsts, such as anal, etc. I don't know anything at all about the Japanese industry's approach to firsts, but I would assume that fans of JAV porn are grateful when pornstars from outside the JAV industry whom they are fans of perform in JAV porn.
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - May 9 2016 : 2:05PM
It's about a willingness to start shooting within a particular category of porn earlier rather than later. IR is a specific category within porn, and the concept of "first IR" carries with it an incentive to not shoot IR immediately. Therefore, when a pornstar in whom I am interested starts shooting within that category earlier rather than later I am grateful.The result is the current reality of IR, and it's in the context of that reality that I made my comment. Edited by - misspornUSA on 5/9/2016 2:11:24 PM
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DiamondJackman Deactivated User
Straight From My Brown Balls, Using Good Pussy 501 Posts 10/15
Posted - May 9 2016 : 4:33PM
So now it's the "era" we have to take into account, when you know full well pornstars were making the 'pacing' excuses even back then. It's nothing new.
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DiamondJackman Deactivated User
Straight From My Brown Balls, Using Good Pussy 501 Posts 10/15
Posted - May 9 2016 : 4:34PM
AMEN.
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Canadian_Cindy Deactivated User
1102 Posts 2/15
Posted - May 9 2016 : 5:14PM
You fail to consider the time frame they did this vs the climate there is today. Which, if you read my entire post, you would see I mentioned that as part of the discussion. In the early days of both of those women's careers, a performer could literally get two paid scenes a day every day if they wanted. It didn't matter if you showed up drunk, or high, or stuffing your face with a cheeseburger. There were so many scenes being pumped out. Times are different now.. there are very few performers that are getting more than 10 - 15 paid scenes a month right now. A career needs to be managed differently and with more saavy. At the end of it all, we can all argue and disagree.. so what.. the bottom line is this...... The performer can do what they want with their bodies, and can do any scene they want at any time, or never ever do a particular scene. There are enough girls in porn that every sex act is available to the porn fan. So why there is this constant arguments on this forum about why this girl does this and that. I mean, unless you can view every scene produced (which is impossible), you can fill your time with as much porn as you can consume with all the sex acts you want. You don't need to run down Performer A for not doing what you want to see; go get it from Performer B. As for the IR stuff.... I get this is a much more complex issue than "she doesn't do DP's". It is racial, and goes back into complexity to the days of slavery. I know it offends some people and things get emotional. The bottom line from a business point of view is this... the larger your fanbase is, the more money you can command from your "First few IR titles". So, if you hold off for a period of time while you build your fanbase, you will make more money. It is what it is. Until the day comes in our countries where the only way the word "race" is used, is collectively for all humans, this will be a struggle. People still apply that word based on skin colors and facial formations and until it broadens it's scope, racial issues will be there. Edited by - Canadian_Cindy on 5/9/2016 5:43:49 PM
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DiamondJackman Deactivated User
Straight From My Brown Balls, Using Good Pussy 501 Posts 10/15
Posted - May 9 2016 : 6:00PM
^Like I said to MissPU, they used that excuse even back when porn was fruitful.
I'm not an actor, but I play one on TV 911 Posts 4/06
Posted - May 9 2016 : 6:36PM
^ Who did and how do you know? Were you following people on Twitter a decade ago? You seem fixated on the idea that something (may have) happened once, and seem to have little regard for how tangible that concern is or how widespread it was if it indeed happened. But let's say you do have an actual example. What percentage of the porn producing talent does that example represent? You act like these things are the rule, not the exception.
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - May 9 2016 : 6:36PM
^^And as I asked you, do you think that all of the many, many pornstars who pace their careers are deluded? I'm not just talking about IR. You implied that there is no reason for pornstars to pace themselves at all. Edited by - misspornUSA on 5/9/2016 6:37:21 PM
Honestly, there isn't. From a monetary point of view, way more often than not, it's a bad idea. At least in the long term. And that's actually doubly true for anal, since that's an act that pays more for a first and more on a per scene basis. If you're just looking to make as much money in your career as you possibly can (no matter how long said career is), you should immediately put yourself as available to do everything you're willing to do. Edit: The only exception I can think of to this is when a girl comes in doing things that are very hardcore, and then has trouble booking softer shoots because she's known for doing harder things. And even that can be avoided if you're a good enough performer (Remy LaCroix's first scene being a gangbang is about the best example I can think of). Edited by - whatsatelephonebill on 5/9/2016 6:56:59 PM
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - May 9 2016 : 7:16PM
^I have to go with with the consensus of pornstars who have spoken about this. Is it possible that you understand the business better than them? Sure. Is it likely? Could be, but I don't think that it is.
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Canadian_Cindy Deactivated User
1102 Posts 2/15
Posted - May 9 2016 : 7:22PM
Well, if "I want to make more money for my first scene of something by building my fanbase first", is a negative or an "excuse"..... then that is your view. Just don't ever try to say that you care about performers careers or their right to determine their own careers.
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Canadian_Cindy Deactivated User
1102 Posts 2/15
Posted - May 9 2016 : 7:24PM
Everyone knows us forum posters know what is best for what a woman should and not do to her body and what and what she should not film. We know better and she is a terrible person if she won't do a group scene with more than three men and that she should be listening to the experts and do more 10 man blowbangs :) Honestly, why even have agents or sexual likes and dislikes. ADT should be every girl's booking agent and personal body monitor and they better not dare to cross us. :) PS - this was sarcasm for all you literalists out there. Edited by - Canadian_Cindy on 5/9/2016 7:26:13 PM
I'm saying that career anecdotes are just that, anecdotes, and that there's isn't, and never has been, one correct way to handle your career. You should never be asked to or put yourself as willing to do something you're unwilling to do. But waiting solely for the sake of a larger payday usually is a bad economic decision. And there's people in the industry that agree with what I just said, and the truth is I came to this conclusion after hearing their arguments. And because I was in a hurry, I didn't actually fully explain the reasoning behind my statement. But the basic gist of it is that the whole idea of waiting to shoot certain types of scenes for a larger payday is about the idea of rejecting money now for the possibility of more money later. That, in and of itself, isn't necessarily a good economic decision because the future isn't definite, but isn't always going to be a bad one since the payday usually stays available for as long as you're still around (the amount offered and the company offering it may fluctuate, but the offer is usually out there). But it goes beyond that. If you're shooting as much as you want to, then you're already going to be turning down bookings in the first place, so turning down a booking that doesn't necessarily pay more in order to drive up demand for it can be justified economically (and at the very least, I do think we're headed towards an industry where non-first IR scenes don't pay any more than b/g for anyone, as there's already many performers who don't charge extra for non-first IR). But, if you're not working as much as you're wanting to, turning down a scene you're willing to do (or just not getting the call because you aren't available for it) means that that's a whole scene fee that you aren't getting solely because you're waiting for a larger payday somewhere down the line. That's a missed opportunity cost that you aren't guaranteed to get back when you shoot that "first". And the longer you go on waiting, the more of those pile up, and the more the payment for the first would have to be to justify the wait, economically speaking. And that's not to mention the fact that it's not like you can't get a nice paycheck from shooting your first early on in your career as well. Then there's the other primary reason for waiting, which is the idea of escalating popularity. I see it as the idea that gradually introducing yourself to new audiences helps you to become more popular over time. But for every person you can bring up that followed this trend to popularity, I can bring up another one that didn't. Generally speaking, I've still never seen any real evidence that there's anything besides attractiveness, how well you perform in a general sense, and personality that determine how popular you do or do not end up being. And I'm not sure that anyone even can come up with any real evidence that proves that a graduated career is better from a gaining popularity standpoint. I think Cindy mistook what I said to mean that women should be available for everything as soon as they start out. That's not what I meant. There's plenty of performers out there who came in generally unwilling to do certain things not because they wanted to wait for a payday, but because they honestly felt uncomfortable doing those things, and over time became more comfortable and more willing to do them. And waiting to shoot certain acts until you control the production of them entirely (i.e. waiting until you become a director or open up you own website) is also a risky, but logical economic decision. But turning down shoots now that you're willing to do for the possibility of making even more on a single shoot further down the line in your career is just not a sound economic decision most of the time. And let it be known that the vast majority of us aren't in a position to make that determination for any specific performer for any specific act, if for no other reason than because the vast majority of us don't know if any given performer is being booked as often as they want to be. Edited by - whatsatelephonebill on 5/9/2016 9:04:43 PM
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Canadian_Cindy Deactivated User
1102 Posts 2/15
Posted - May 9 2016 : 10:18PM
Got to love all these business consultants showing up in the thread. Maybe just consider for a second that your advice is highly biased because you are coming from a position of arousal and/or emotion wanting to see a woman you find attractive doing a sex act you like. That is not the most objective place to be when telling a girl when or when not to take payment for such scenes.
Edited by - Canadian_Cindy on 5/9/2016 10:23:00 PM
^ Let's be honest, this thread ran out of new things to talk about sometime last summer. And even the talk from last summer was basically debating things performers themselves were saying (i.e. we weren't adding anything new to the conversation ourselves).
Novelty - review by Captain Jack
Posted - Apr 30 2016 : 5:25PM
