I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - May 25 2015 : 12:19PM
I think it's incredible that you regard it as a non-issue that "a legit porn icon" is unable to get as much work as "a guy who pumps out movies" because his skin happens to be rich in melanin. As you know, Lex is only one example. Do the data18 test with Danny Mountain and Rico Strong for instance. There are no doubt exceptions, but the rule isn't a good one.They are being politic, which is probably best for their career. It's not a performer-fan dichotomy. A number of white women in the industry have been quite vocal over the years. Edited by - misspornUSA on 5/25/2015 12:20:49 PM
I'm not proclaiming to KNOW anything. But the title of the thread suggest something that is a common practice. Do you know that Lex gets paid more for the Breast Fest series since so far it has only featured white performers than for the Black Panthers series? And if the black male performers do get paid more for IR, than making that information known neutralizes the controversy surrounding it. But if not, maybe its something they should explore from a business perspective. So if a performer is "Waiting to Shoot IR for a Bigger Pay Day", 'IF' that practice exists. I'm sure they want to work with top notch black male talent. They should also want to benefit from that.
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - May 25 2015 : 3:08PM
It is my understanding that Evil Angel is not in a position to pay pornstars more for IR or not.
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Curtom Deactivated User
293 Posts 8/14
Posted - May 25 2015 : 4:56PM
They are being politic, which is probably best for their career. It's not a performer-fan dichotomy. A number of white women in the industry have been quite vocal over the years. Edited by - misspornUSA on 5/25/2015 12:20:49 PM [/quote] Exactly. Think: Lisa Ann Aurora Snow Sarah Jay Kristina Rose
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Curtom Deactivated User
293 Posts 8/14
Posted - May 25 2015 : 5:17PM
Lol, Kenny Styles has Asian privilege, he's worked with the following: Brandi Love Brandy Aniston Carmella Bing Cassandra Nix Dani Jenson Dylan Ryder Harmony Rose Jessica Drake Kortney Kane Madelyn Marie Sunny Lane Yurizan Beltran Alexis Texas Alison Tyler Amia Miley Surprisingly non of the above EVER done a scene with a black!
Lex doesn't get "paid more" to shoot Brest Fest than Black Panthers because Lex is the director/producer of both lines. He's the person in control of what he gets "paid" for scenes in either of those movies.
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fredgee Deactivated User
350 Posts 12/13
Posted - May 25 2015 : 6:54PM
Can't prove waiting to shoot ir is more money. Even if it is after the novelty wears off it is no different than before. Race from a business standpoint shouldn't be a issue. By bringing race into it the industry has basically declared war on 1/3 the domestic market and 2/3 of the global market. A no win position if ever there was one.
If this true, the performer she works with would be of considerable importance. Which goes back to my original question, why don't the black performers as a collective demand more pay as well?
Yes, and I will continue to see it as a non issue as long as you're comparing Lex to Mike. I see Mike as a guy with a studio line and seems to put out a new movie with him in all the scenes every few weeks from what I can tell, plus whatever other scenes he pops up in for others. Lex on the other hand is clealy a "brand" and is more selective about what movies he appears in. Lex is a icon that can carry movies built around him and does so for various studios. Lex being in a movie movies product because he's an attraction. That's why he has entire movies built around him. If he's poping up in any old thing it lesseness the brand. Notice Lex doesn't pop up in much of the lower tier studio stuff. I'm sure they'd like to have him because he moves product but he doesn't do them or he's out of their price range. Yeah, Lex isn't shooting as many scenes as MIke but he isn't hurting for work and could probably work much more if he chose to. Just because he aknowledges that Mike has the ability to work with a higher percentage of the women in the industry that doesn't mean he's hurting for work or wants to pump out work to that degree.They are being politic, which is probably best for their career. It's not a performer-fan dichotomy. A number of white women in the industry have been quite vocal over the years.
Click to expand
Maybe because they're actually in the business they better understand the realities of it and don't sweat it as much as some fans do. Regardless of what some fans want to think IR and black porn is something of a niche. The vast majority of porn consumers are white. The majority of porn is made for them. It's the same thing with tv, Hollywood movies, magazines and most media. Most of the porn made is a reflection of the audience. Most white porn watchers don't have a strong desire to watch IR or black on black porn. They watch the porn that stars "them" mostly. They may not mind seeing IR but most of them don't seek it out. Much more white on white porn is made so it only makes sense that they don't work as much as their white counterparts. There's a pecking order in porn. White women are most in demand, then white men, then Latino women, then black men, then black women, BBW women, etc.... As I said before it's not about what's "fair" or "right" but it's just a reflection of the consumer audience. We'll never see as many black actors on the screen and we'll never see as many black male performers as white on the porn screen. The audience doesn't dictate it goes that way. The vocal white women you mention may have a a point to a certain degree but at the end of the day all women in porn are responsible for their careers and might not choose a path based on what others think they should do.
Exactly. If the director doesn't deem the girl worthy of a "large sum" don't pay her a large sum. Offer to pay her less or pass on her altogether. But if it's that important to have bragging rights of "First IR" then this is what you have to deal with. Perhaps it's okay to pass on the girl and maybe get her at a reduced cost when it's her 3rd or 4th IR if paying her more is an issue.
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - May 26 2015 : 11:55AM
Again, it's not just about Lex, and it's less about what Lex wants than what he is realistically able to do within the constraints placed on him by the industry because of his skin color.Is your insistence on the performer-fan dichotomy so great that you're ignoring the fact that the female performers I mentioned are actually in the business and understand the realities of it? In the rest of your comment, are you suggesting that if blacks were included in more non-IR releases it would hurt sales? If that is indeed your opinion, is there evidence for this? If that is not your opinion, and there is no evidence that black men getting more work would lead to a drop in sales, then there is no reason not to hire them. You mentioned television shows and Hollywood films, but these commonly have a "token black" character to attract black viewers. Even advertising is more diverse than ever. Meanwhile, porn remains in the dark ages. Edited by - misspornUSA on 5/26/2015 11:55:32 AM Edited by - misspornUSA on 5/26/2015 11:56:34 AM
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fredgee Deactivated User
350 Posts 12/13
Posted - May 26 2015 : 12:28PM
The part about Black porn not selling is wrong. At one Time Jake Steed and Angel Kelly were the top stars in porn. Ray Victory was as popular as any male performer. Black Cheerleader search is probably the best selling series in porn history followed by Black street hookers. All white porn has been a dream for some for a long time and they should have to stick with it as the industry fades.
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Interracial4Life Deactivated User
329 Posts 3/15
Posted - May 26 2015 : 4:03PM
Another question to ask, do you think Interracial out sell black porn?
I'm not an actor, but I play one on TV 911 Posts 4/06
Posted - May 26 2015 : 5:29PM
You'll forgive me if I find those claims somewhat dubious.You keep saying "market" but I don't think you know what it means. The global market, isn't every man woman and child alive. It isn't every human being alive that watches porn. The market is every person that pays for porn and that is almost certainly not an equal distribution of the world's population as a whole.
As a consumer of porn I don't really care what color the performers are. I just like to see attractive people putting on a good performance. That said, I find a significant portion of IR scenes to be offensive. They are rarely "Two people fucking and they happen to have different skin color." and are almost always "white girl gets degraded by black stereotype" and I find it laughable that so many people complain about racist performers and they seem to think the cure for that is to force people into scenes where everyone is racially degraded. I personally have no desire to watch "race" porn. (where skin color is integral to the scene) I watch porn regardless of the races involved, not because of them.
^ Be aware that he thinks that it's not piracy what's affecting the Industry but the conspiracy of the white Industry owners who stubbornly keep shooting whites instead of blacks , he says that since Caucasians are a minority they should shoot for all the others instead and stop shooting whites, nobody wants white porn , the whole world want blacks. so any post you see from him you should keep in mind the hidden meaning behind it
Edited by - LCF on 5/26/2015 5:43:33 PM
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Interracial4Life Deactivated User
329 Posts 3/15
Posted - May 26 2015 : 5:50PM
^^ I think he is trying to cost trouble because he is not a fan of IR porn. If you don't like taking about IR then why you post on here anyway Edited by - Interracial4Life on 5/26/2015 5:51:51 PM
I am saying the excuse that Black porn doesn't sell is not true. Even if the market is all people who buy porn a all white industry would still ignore at least 1/3 of the domestic market..
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - May 26 2015 : 6:03PM
There's a lot in between those two extremes, and for all the pornstars and others who complain about "racist" porn in which the "white girl gets degraded" I very rarely encounter that scenario and I watch "'race' porn" daily.Can you name the IR scenes that have been released this year in which "everyone is racially degraded"?You have a right to watch whatever kind of porn you'd like of course, but whether's we're talking about big dicks, big breasts, big asses or phat white asses specifically, most porn viewers are interested in the physical characteristics of the people whom they are watching. Edited by - misspornUSA on 5/26/2015 6:42:32 PM
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Interracial4Life Deactivated User
329 Posts 3/15
Posted - May 26 2015 : 6:03PM
^ Not you but Murdock, anyway what is the value of an bigger paid for an 1st IR like how much do they charge for it. Edited by - Interracial4Life on 5/26/2015 6:04:58 PM
I'm not an actor, but I play one on TV 911 Posts 4/06
Posted - May 26 2015 : 6:41PM
I don't have any problem at all with interracial sex. I do have a problem with a lot of interracial porn though. I believe that fetishizing racism doesn't make it any less racist. At no point do I need to be reminded what race anyone in a scene is (be it a on the box cover, on the host website or in the scene itself) I just want to watch hot people fuck, regardless of skin color. And I'm posting about it because I find the topic interesting, even if a lot of the IR porn produced isn't. (to me)
I'm not an actor, but I play one on TV 911 Posts 4/06
Posted - May 26 2015 : 6:58PM
I agree it's not every scene, and the degree to which it happens varies a great deal too.The dynamic of "it's dirty and taboo for a white girl to have sex with a black guy" is degrading to all of the performers. So a I consider pretty much any scene that makes race a focus at all is that way. Maybe the majority of people watch IR porn because they find it wholesome and just appreciate the cultural diversity, but I'm skeptical of that.Completely agree. And if there were such a thing as assism, or titism, or bigdickism, I'd make the same claims about those as well. Just because your racial predilections manifest in a sexual way, that doesn't change what they are. In general I agree with a lot of what you've said on this thread, and think you've made sound arguments for everything you've said, and I respect your opinions. On this I think we'll disagree, and it might be best to leave it at that, as neither of us seems likely to change the other's mind.
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - May 26 2015 : 7:06PM
^As you've probably guessed, I disagree with you that racially focused porn is inherently degrading, but in light of what you wrote at the end of your comment I won't press the point.
I'm not an actor, but I play one on TV 911 Posts 4/06
Posted - May 26 2015 : 7:37PM
^ Yeah, but I will add this caveat, while not all of it is produced with the intent of being degrading, I think it is still inherent to the genre (drawing attention to, and making an issue of race) I suspect (and this is purely speculation on my part) that there are a significant number (not necessarily a majority) of IR fans that watch IR with that frame of mind, regardless of the context of the scene. I realize that some people are going to just dismiss it as "a preference" but there are typically deep rooted psychological reasons why we prefer the things we prefer, and I think if you look at the actual reason why some people like IR, the answers aren't always very pretty. As to the original post, I think it's a chicken/egg scenario. I don't think you can place all of the blame on consumers or on the industry. I think the focus on IR and eventual inflated value of "First IR" happened in concert between the two. People are a product of their environment and plenty of people grew up in a world where interracial sex absolutely was a taboo thing. So I don't think you can just completely ignore that and blame the industry, but at the same time the industry is... well it's an industry and they're in it to make money. Part of doing that is marketing, and and sometimes that means creating new markets where none existed before just so you have more places to peddle your wares. With that in mind, I think the industry recognized an opportunity to capitalize on the taboo nature of IR and make it a marketing point. And while I do think that some people still view IR as an "extreme" act, I don't think you can just draw the parallel to people getting paid more for other extreme acts and leave it at that. There are different reasons performers change their rates for different acts, and the "extreme" nature is just one. With the case of IR since there is clearly a market for it right now, then the higher rates are simply a matter of supply and demand. If consumers are willing to spend more on "First IR" movies and studios are willing to pay more to produce them, then performers getting paid more falls in line with that model, regardless of how extreme that performance may or may not be. As to the impact someone else already made the good point (I think it was Draxxx) that it depends on if you're looking at it from a moral standpoint or a business standpoint. From a business perspective I don't really have an issue with it. If performers think that it is the best business decision, and studios are willing to pay them, then that's great. From a moral viewpoint I do tend to think it's all a little racist, but considering all of the other bigger obstacles that various races have in America and around the world, I don't think it's going to make a huge difference. It might marginally slow the disappearance of racism, but I don't think it's going to cause riots in the streets or have any sort of huge impact, so even though I don't particularly care for it, I think it's likely rather innocuous.
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Curtom Deactivated User
293 Posts 8/14
Posted - May 26 2015 : 8:42PM
This is also interesting, Rocco S. is the reverse of non-IR girls, he's never done an (Skin Diamond not included) IR scene.
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Curtom Deactivated User
293 Posts 8/14
Posted - May 26 2015 : 8:52PM
Me too, but hey, the bolder they get the better.
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Interracial4Life Deactivated User
329 Posts 3/15
Posted - May 26 2015 : 8:53PM
Rocco have shot IR scenes with BM/WF in his movie but never done a black woman. There been a few who don't do black woman, I think Porn Dan is one of them because you don't see black girls in his live shows or ever don't do them. He have shot IR scene with BM/WF in his live shows, and ever Fuck A Fan.
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Interracial4Life Deactivated User
329 Posts 3/15
Posted - May 26 2015 : 9:04PM
I just saw that interview and they are right, there so much racism out there in the industry, and they are missing out. They ever put some of them on there no list, I bet you Adriana Chechik is on some black men no list because after the whole Howard Stern interview last year. I think the reason why she isn't working with Prince or isn't do a lot of IR scene as well, the same is said for Ava Adams Edited by - Interracial4Life on 5/26/2015 9:05:21 PM
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - May 26 2015 : 9:43PM
^Prince tweeted support for Adriana after she get called out for her Stern interview, though I suppose it's possible he hadn't yet heard the interview at the time of that tweet. In any case, I am a bit curious to know why their scene never happened. Did Ava makes comments similar to Adriana's? Edited by - misspornUSA on 5/26/2015 9:47:53 PM
I acknowledged most black males don't work as most white males overall and even explained why. The original debate here was you seemed to think this was a bad thing to you as a consumer and gave Lex vs Mike's output as an example. I repeatedly pointed out why I thought Lex vs Mike was a bad example to use.No. But the men I named have all actually produced porn for themselves and studios. They (like me) tend to look at it more from a business standpoint and are looking at things from a different perspective. They've seen what sells and what doesn't and are more interested in producing porn that sells than getting too caught up in worrying about the white girls who don't want to bang black men. The girls (like you) are coming at it from more of a moral standpoint. Lisa Ann points out that by not doing IR they limit their audience but those girls are well aware of it and apparently are fine with it. It's their choice. Not every girl wants to be that type of pornstar.No. (In a hurry and no time to get into detail).
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - May 27 2015 : 12:19PM
^Did you watch the Dogfart BTS interview posted earlier? Prince Yashua claimed that when he publicly voiced his intention to never work with black females who had refused to work with black men, Rico Strong was the only one to agree with him and everyone else kept silent. So are we to assume that Prince and Rico are the only black men in the industry who are offended by the "no blacks" policy of an increasing number of black pornstars? Of course not. Neither should we assume that black men who don't speak out on the bs surrounding IR all approve of their being discriminated against and segregated. They are doing what is best for their career, which is to not rock the boat. White women in the industry are in a privileged position compared to black men, and that is why many of them are comfortable speaking out. The less work black men get in the industry the less American porn I subscribe to or purchase, so I continue to view the race-based limitations placed on black men in the industry as negative for me as a consumer. Edited by - misspornUSA on 5/27/2015 12:33:52 PM
^ the lack of black female performers would affect me as a consumer , I don't mind who they fuck, but too many people are trying to push them and basically denying choices. IR BM/WF is big enough for everybody, IR WM/BF is increasing whereas BM/BF is shrinking , are you really surprised for some of them trying to cut a market? also how many scenes both Prince and Rico shoot per month? What percentage of them IS NOT Interracial? one every 20? 2 maybe , do they refuse to shoot with blacks? or just give precedence for what is better paid or gives a better pay-off ?(Prince is a director too and for I know shoots mostly IR) the last issue of Black Panther was in December , the previous one in September , now we are entering June and there's no new issue yet , still waiting. Who is actually really shooting black on black movies? Surely not Prince nor Rico and apparently neither is Lex The only one is LT I bought what he did for Combat Zone, but nothing else saw the light here at least at the stores I'm used to go Exquisite does something. Diana Devoe a director who hires a lot of black performers and shot a lot of black on black porn isn't working as much as she used to Justin Slayer is out of business apparently so who remains? First there were complaints for not enough sistas in main porn , now that they are getting more light , the problem is the opposite, too much IR for them So is that possible that those girls are blamed for not shooting what nobody is actually shooting? seriously? What if those girls would refuse to work for black directors or performers who don't shoot black females? Why nobody complains about Shane Diesel ? How many black girls did he work with? I can only remember one, in YEARS not just few months like some of the names put here
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - May 27 2015 : 3:44PM
^Has anyone on this thread criticized black women in the industry for not working more often with black men? I certainly haven't. I rarely even watch black on black porn. Actually, what these women are being called out for is their refusal to work with black men, not their inability to do so. There is a great big difference between black women not shooting black on black because they don't have the option available to them, and black women simply refusing to do so.
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - May 27 2015 : 4:00PM
^If you're asking whether it is true that some black pornstars really do have a "no black men" policy, I myself brought up that question on page 2 of "Are black females turning away from Black porn?" Now we have Curtom's link, which provides a definitive answer by people who are in the know.
^ I'm not saying there aren't after all Anya Ivy has it in her profile , I'm saying is there any proof for any talent blamed for this? because there are guys putting complaints on girls with very few scenes behind anyway the solution doesn't seem to be the smartest one I mean are they really refusing to perform with stars who wouldn't work with them in the first place? Looks like a barman putting a warning : teetotalers will not be served any liquor!
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - May 27 2015 : 4:28PM
^I can't speak for anyone else, but though I personally do not assume that any black pornstar who hasn't shot with a black man has a "no blacks" policy, I do recognize it as a very real possibility. It's the same as waiting to shoot IR. If a pornstar doesn't shoot IR in their first year she might have any number of reasons for not having done so, but because there is a trend of "Waiting to Shoot IR for a Bigger Pay Day" it's not unreasonable to seriously consider the possibility that that is her reason for postponement. Edited by - misspornUSA on 5/27/2015 4:30:03 PM
Posted - May 25 2015 : 12:19PM
