I'm not an actor, but I play one on TV 911 Posts 4/06
Posted - Jun 11 2015 : 3:02PM
I don't care how good your company is, you and they are still wrong. (see: "absolute adjective" if you need further clarification, and google "could care less" if you don't believe that tons of people butcher the English language on a regular basis, showing that just because other people do it, doesn't make it correct) And I didn't bring the point up to nit-pick your grammar, I brought it up for a very specific point that you still continue to ignore. You continue to talk about changing the industry in terms of trying to improve it for the better in terms of racial discrimination, when in reality you're only interested in changing it within the confines of not rocking the boat with regards to your preferences. And to be clear, I don't have an issue with people wanting to change things without hurting themselves, but a huge pet peeve of mine is when preople try to pass themselves off as some sort of altruistic social crusaders when in reality they're just looking out for themselves. What you continue to profess is that you want racial equality in porn. Which is false for the reasons I've mentioned above. What you really want is a lesser degree of inequality in porn so long as it doesn't adversely affect your preferred niches. I have no issue with the latter. My issue is your refusal to admit it. (especially after asking for moral justification from other people for their preferences)I could say "go **** yourself" and that would be a "response" to your post. It still isn't answering the question though. If I missed the actual answer to the questions I posed, then let me know where I can find them and I'll go look (you need not quote it again, a time/date will suffice and I'll go find it myself)Again... I think that is on the fans as much as it is on the performers, but my out of nowhere comment was with regards to pornstars chiding fans as I hadn't really seen that discussed recently. Perhaps I missed it.Man am I glad I never liked IR fetish porn in the first place. I'd hate to have that moral dilemma weighing on my conscience.
I'm not an actor, but I play one on TV 911 Posts 4/06
Posted - Jun 11 2015 : 3:17PM
Some excellent points, most of which I agree with. Yes, I think AVN is a better source, but I'm not sure what they are using for their "current best selling" list. I completely agree that sales from 15 years ago aren't particularly relevant, but at the same time, I wouldn't put much stock in something that is looking at sales over a few weeks or even a few months, as that is going to be greatly skewed by new sales release spikes so the timing of movie releases could really skew things. To get a good picture for what we're actually talking about (current state of the industry) I'd want at least 6 months, if not a year (as I don't think that the industry and market have changed significantly in that time) That said from a quick glance at the AVN list, it looks like the ratio of IR to "vanilla" porn is shifting towards IR but I from what I can tell it still looks like "vanilla" is the big seller. From what I've seen of Blacked it appears to be great content, and on the "racial neutral" scale it actually seems to score on the far side of the spectrum from the heavily fetishized porn. There is still a fetish component there but it is much more subtle. Personally I find that more appealing, and less offensive but I suppose an argument could be made on the other side. Good point on the performer listing. But if it was up to me, the agencies and the studios would get together, work on a means for verifying that someone is a legitimate producer, and move all of the actress pages (with shooting info) behind a password protected wall. If Joe Watchdog couldn't just look up an actress profile and see no IR I think that would cut down on a lot of this crap in the first place. I never understood why so much of that information was public in the first place.
I'm not an actor, but I play one on TV 911 Posts 4/06
Posted - Jun 11 2015 : 3:24PM
Well I never said that IR doesn't sell, so I'm not sure where you got that. What I did say is that it doesn't sell as much as "vanilla" porn.With all due respect, nobody cares what pornhub data is because pornhub is a bunch of content-thieving assholes who aren't contributing a dime to the industry. As already stated several times in this and other threads, the people that make up the "market" in porn are the ones who actually pay for it. Free sites are utterly irrelevant to the discussion.
What about the fact that IR is really just code for Black Male/White Female? Maybe it's time to be honest about that fact and come up with a new term.
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fredgee Deactivated User
350 Posts 12/13
Posted - Jun 11 2015 : 4:48PM
When the truth about IR, Black on Black becomes to hard to ignore it might be too late..most of the best women will be out of the business. Jezabel Vessir hasn't been on a site in months, same with Jade Aspen, Harley Dean, Ivy Sherwood . There are many others who had great potential but did one or two scenes and are now gone..consumers must demand change by supporting sites with diverse content.
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Interracial4Life Deactivated User
329 Posts 3/15
Posted - Jun 11 2015 : 7:01PM
That is not going always anytime soon, if IR sell then the more they make the more they will shoot. Plus folk watch IR not just black men but white men as well. If you don't like it then don't watch it Edited by - Interracial4Life on 6/11/2015 7:09:31 PM
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Interracial4Life Deactivated User
329 Posts 3/15
Posted - Jun 11 2015 : 7:07PM
Jezabel Vessir had a few scenes coming out but it's is with all white men so she won't be in the industry too long. Harley Dean just got a boob job show she is still shooting, the same is with Jade Aspen. Ivy Sherwood delete her twitter account which mean she is no longer in the industry, been black and stopping B/G is not the best ideal. But the problem is that IR sell more then black on black
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Zy28 Deactivated User
251 Posts 2/12
Posted - Jun 12 2015 : 1:35AM
Well she mentioned her lack of interest in working with Black men was because of her displeasure with how such scenes are done on camera. Which is odd since Jules Jordan et al do great scenes with Black talent. In fact aside from dogfart most of the scenes of that type aren't offensively done. So if she had any concern she could have found a proper studio to work with. But then while she had those "concerns" she does pretty much every extreme scene known to man on film which even most porn girls will never do including double penetration, anal, gangbangs, and double vaginal penetration. So her argument to put it mildly doesn't stand up to any scrutiny at all.Jezabel doesn't even discuss working with Black men. And she doesn't get much work. So it's probably likely she won't be in the industry long since she's not making any money. Harley Dean doesn't do scenes at all really she's more of a "party" girl who does swinger parties etc..to make money. Anya Ivy I know still doesn't work with Black men. Not sure how long that shtick is going to be profitable though. And Jade I believe is mostly out of the industry. Edited by - Zy28 on 6/12/2015 1:36:58 AM
Let me make something very clear. I now have more control over my career than ever before. I'm out of all my contracts, and can shoot which ever scenes I find a turn on. I NEVER held out for a bigger pay to do IR. Some girls do, but that's their business. Let me break it down to you. Nikki Benz Jungle Fever has a total of 6 scenes. I wasn't happy with the 5th scene 100% because I'm a perfectionist so I did the 6th scene for FREE. I didn't get paid a lump sum for the entire movie like many other stars do, but rather I got paid per scene, and I majorly discounted each one of the scenes. I would never charge more for an IR scene vs regular B/G scene. That's just wrong! So to sum it up, I did my 6th scene for absolutely FREE, and the other 5 scenes I gave Jules a major discount. I wanted this movie to blow people away, and I was so grateful that Jules finally gave me a chance to shoot IR, that it wasn't about the money for me. It was about me finally doing something I've been wanting to do for a long time. If I did those 6 scenes separately for different companies, or even Jules Jordan, but for 6 different titles, I'd make WAY MORE money off each scene. I hope this FINALLY puts ignorant rumors to rest. I took a major hit in pay by doing what I did. It was out of my own free will. I'm grateful to my true fans for supporting Nikki Benz Jungle Fever. Thank you Edited by - nikkibenz on 6/12/2015 2:46:11 AM
^ I appreciate everything you have done Nikki,we are not all a bunch of nut cases on this forum.I apologize you've had to come on here and had to justify everything that you have done in your career.Again a big thanks for everything,you're one of my favorites.
Unfortunately, it won't because so many people have their minds made up about this and refuse to acknowledge anything that doesn't jibe with what they already think. But thank you for coming here and try to set the record straight and sharing details about you pay that I still don't get why some people have so much of an interest in.The final results were awesome and I'm glad you were able to may your IR debut in such a big way. No matter what you got paid it was a great project.
I'm not an actor, but I play one on TV 911 Posts 4/06
Posted - Jun 12 2015 : 9:22AM
As Kevin Moore noted in the link on the first page, the performers are in a no-win situation with the fans as everyone seems to be demanding something different. Keep that in mind when you or anyone else tries to play Sherlock Holmes, and crack the case of the starlet who didn't fuck a black guy her first week in the business. You can pick apart her words, or anyone else's and you may or may not find some inconsistencies with their stories. In general for things like that if you are determined to find something wrong, you probably will, but that aside can you blame any of them if they do spout of some bullshit excuse? Given that a performer does have free will and the ability to pick and choose who she shoots with (and last I checked that is still the case) then "Just shoot IR from the beginning" isn't a valid solution. Some people might not want to do it from the beginning, and some people might not want to do it at all. So when a performer starts off by not shooting IR (which in the context of this reality we live in where performers aren't obligated to fuck everyone, is a valid choice) some people are okay with that, others aren't. Its a segment of the latter crowd that makes this an issue that we're talking about now. Some of the people that take issue with performers not shooting IR, demand a reason. And from what I've seen, a lot of those people are demanding a reason, not so that they can satisfy their curiosity, but more so as an excuse to attack the performer in one way or another... usually to portray the performer as some sort of racist. "She didn't answer... She must be a racist." "She said she isn't attracted to black men... She must be a racist." "She's holding out for more money... at the expense of the black man. She must be a racist." As a general rule of thumb there is no reason they can give (including remaining silent) that will satisfy some people, so they have no real reason to tell the truth. I'm guessing a lot of performers just try and find what they think is the most palatable reason for most of their fans, and that's what you will typically hear. In reality none of us are owed an explanation for why someone isn't shooting IR, or why they chose to wait. And in the context of a society and an industry where no one is under any obligation to have sex with someone they don't want to, then there is nothing wrong with a performer not shooting IR. So besides that fact that there are still people that are pigeonholing performers as black performers and white performers instead of just treating them as performers, the other root of this problem is the people that insist on making it a problem in the first place. After 13 pages of discussion, nobody has solved anything. Nobody has made the industry any better. No amount of discussion is going to change this. Singling out performers doesn't change the reality we live in. If someone doesn't want to shoot IR the only "solution" to that is for that performer to change their mind. Criticizing them isn't going to change their mind. Attacking them isn't going to change their mind. In the vast majority of circumstances, nothing is going to change their mind (except maybe a big payday, but as already mentioned that still doesn't satisfy a large portion of the people complaining anyway) Basically what I'm getting around to is that the people who want to make a big stink about people not shooting IR are a big part of the problem. They are certainly free to do so, but it isn't accomplishing anything constructive, and it certainly has a negative impact on some of the performers. If those people spent as much time looking for and watching performers that they liked instead of looking for and attacking performers they don't like, everyone would be a lot happier. And I'm not sure if I mentioned it previously or not but I really wish people would stop comparing IR to various sex acts. IR is analogous to gay or straight porn, not DPs or DAPs. IR isn't a sex act (extreme or otherwise) it's a sex partner. It's who they're fucking not how they're fucking. It isn't any more or less extreme than DAP because they aren't remotely comparable in that way. And the idea that someone should do IR because they've already done DPs and/or DAPs is utterly ridiculous. "Have you ever had anal sex?" "Yeah" "Well aren't you overdue for having a black girlfriend?" Think how stupid that conversation sounds, and then realize that's basically what you're saying when you try and make the "but she's already done all of these 'extreme' things" argument.
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Interracial4Life Deactivated User
329 Posts 3/15
Posted - Jun 12 2015 : 10:12AM
Thank you for addressing this Nikki, I'm sorry you and Carter Cruise had to read this but finally giving them an answer. We always don't know about what goes on behind the scenes in the porn industry because we are just fans who watched your scene in all. But I'm glad you got to set the record straight so we can put that to reset. BTW I enjoy your Jungle Fever movie, those scene are well worth it.
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - Jun 12 2015 : 10:50AM
Thanks for commenting Nikki. Though I've enjoyed much of your other work over the years, Jungle Fever is my favorite movie of your's. The following statement from Nikki is particularly significant.(emphasis mine) Edited by - misspornUSA on 6/12/2015 10:53:37 AM
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - Jun 12 2015 : 11:19AM
This is also important:Nikki seems to imply that it was other people in the industry (producers? agents?) who held her back and prevented her from shooting IR.
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Zy28 Deactivated User
251 Posts 2/12
Posted - Jun 12 2015 : 8:31PM
Actually they are comparable. The industry treats IR like a separate sex act, which is ridiculous and offensive. On agency websites it's listed as a separate "category" and girls talk about in the context of doing other scenes like it's anal or gangbangs. So if a woman does gangbangs, dp, or anal but says working with Black men is too degrading then that's obviously a ridiculous belief. That being said I thought a bit more about her statement that white women/Black men scenes are degrading in their portrayal and she might honestly have believed that because of her upbringing in the south and the racial backwardness there. So to her, a plain B/g scene with a Black guy might actually be inherently degrading whereas doing double penetration or gangbangs are extreme sure but not degrading since they're not with Blacks. Such is the insidious way culture can shape a persons thoughts.
On to Nikki Benz, she did a great job with her decision. She kept to a standard b/g career trajectory for many years then decided to branch off and did anal and then worked with Black talent. As for what such scenes are analogous to it's not like gay or straight porn. With those one is talking about different genders. So it's less significant than that. Also since the differences between the scene participants is nothing more than ethnic background since even skin melanin content wouldn't work (For example a dark skinned Indian subcontinent male or Latino male can work with a girl and it'll be "regular" b/g scene not IR) it'd be like working with bald male talent or older male/female talent, since it's in the context of physical features. And more girls are doing such scenes than ever before for a few reasons: 1. Big named girls like Asa Akira, Nikki Benz, Dani Daniels, and Samantha Saint doing such scenes showed others the silliness and economic shortsightedness of their decision. 2. Racial politics have obviously changed in the country. 3. New girls have come in in the past year or so for whom race isn't the issue it was for the old guard of girls who've been in the industry far longer, 4. And the site Blacked came out which does high quality scenes of that type which showed the newer women a great career path. And on the general matter of making more money for such a scene. In the end while it's incredibly offensive to pay a woman more to do a scene with someone of a different ethnic background, financially it doesn't matter much. Because even if a girl gets paid $3000 or a bit more, than for a standard b/g scene that usually only pays $1000, that's a one off situation. For it to be a lucrative career decision they'd have to do numerous scenes at the higher rate. Edited by - Zy28 on 6/12/2015 8:39:59 PM
I'm not an actor, but I play one on TV 911 Posts 4/06
Posted - Jun 12 2015 : 9:15PM
I think you missed my point, but I think we agree to an extent. I don't really care what some porn marketing guy says it is, or where some graphic design guy stuck the IR label on the boxcover. IR isn't a sex act. (even if it is marketed as such) It is simply a choice of sex partners... much the same way gay or straight porn is. Hell, even "barely legal" and "granny" porn are closer analogs to IR than DPs. For that matter it extends to outside of porn too. It's not unusual to know the gender or race of someone's partner. But when is the last time you knew if someone outside of porn was part of a DP, a DAP or DPP? Sex acts, and sexual partners are not analogous, especially in the "which is more extreme" context that they are often brought up around here. I would also say it's erroneous to assume that every performers career arc is going to progress from least extreme to most extreme. Performers and going to shoot various acts with various partners for a litany of reasons, including but not limited to, who/what they enjoy doing, who/what pays the most, who/what work is available to shoot, what sort of mood they were in when they woke up that morning, etc. "She's already shooting anal scenes, she should have been shooting IR by now." in porn is every bit as ridiculous as "She's already had anal sex, she should have been fucking a black guy by now" outside of porn.That's only assuming that a performer has the intention of continuing to shoot IR over the remainder of her career. If she only plans on doing one scene (or one movie) then it does make sense to go for the big payday. There are no absolutes in any of this. What makes sense for one performer doesn't necessarily make sense for another.
I think Jasmine Cairo but I'm not positive and of course the ringleader: Shy Love. But I replied to this comment because I saw Carmen Caliente and I remember seeing a Pornhub interview with some Asian comedian and Mia Lelani where Carmen answered to "Your best sexual experience" with the following: "A big black cock in my pussy." Yeah, figure I'd just drop that there since it's relevant now
Directors call this "Veggie IR" and they dont like it because it doesnt have the same appeal and because of the stigma it carries for dodgers to claim they crossed over.
the bold part said it clear she wasn't free to choose , and BTW she didn't limit herself to Jungle Fever she did at least two more IR scenes after that one plus changed her hair color as if a completely new and truer Nikki came out BTW I own Jungle Fever , I pre-ordered it right after the trailer was available , I particularly like her scene with Flash maybe it's just me but it seemed there was a lot of chemistry in there Edited by - LCF on 6/14/2015 4:13:44 AM
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - Jun 14 2015 : 11:35AM
^Jungle Fever was excellent, and I agree with you that the chemistry between Nikki and Flash really seemed to be authentic. I saw Nikki's scene with Prince on BangBros (which I enjoyed once the director finally shut up), but I didn't know that she shot another IR scene besides that. Do we know who it was with yet?
I've never thought of IR being treated as a sex act. I see it as a genre. It's a niche in porn with a sizable audience. When people decide to compare it to sex acts and then rate those sex acts with levels of degredation then when a girl doesn't do IR before those sex acts people jump to the conclusion that they see IR as more "degrading". There might be some girls in the industry who see it that way but I have to think the vast majority of girls don't look at it those terms. I think IR is seen as a particular genre with a more specific audience that in the past had some negative stigmas attached top it. Things have changed over the years but the labelling and seperate categories are still around and quite frankly work just fine from a marketing standpoint. Most girls don't see being with a black man as "degrading" because as it's been pointed out time and time again, many girls who haven't do IR on screen have done it before off camera. The girls who've waited to do it didn't think black men were lower on the human scale then suddenly decide they weren't. As for the industry itself, categories will always work well for them. Here's this genre/category. There's that niche. People have specific fetihes they prefer and it only makes sense to seperate them and make it easy for the consumer to find their preference. In every IR thread that gets started at some point someone will chime in that "interracial doesn't only mean black and white" . Yeah, in real life it doesn't but in the world of porn IR means black and white (usually BM/WF). Why? because that's the only IR that of any importance to the majority of porn fans. If a person really wants to see Asian IR or Latina IR it's not called IR but it's clearly marked and easy to identify. Pretty simple really. BM/WF happens to be the better selling of the IR mixes so it gets the IR label. Great. It's how it's catergorized and people know exactly what they're getting when they see the label. As an IR fan I like that it's specfic. I know what I want an have no real desire to sift through Latino girls with white guys or Asian girls with Euro guys or whatever combination when I specifically want Black on White. This isn't the real world. This is consumer marketed porn. I'm aware of how things are labelled in real life. When looking for the porn I watch I don't have a need for it to be labelled based on political correctness. At this point in time IR is a bigger deal than anal or gangbangs and such other genres. It only makes sense some girls will treated as a bit more special. Maybe a girl or agent may feel it's something to give more thought and planning to and maximize it's audience and reach. So yeah, I can see where some girls might do some other things first before doing IR. Most of those girls are looking at it from a business standpoint that has nothing to do with a dregradation scale so many fans seem to insist on using. A gangbang or extreme sex scene may more "degrading" but from a business standpoint IR is much more impactful overall. While I find these discussions interesting the problem with them will always be that so many people have formulated their own set of rules and standards they think a girl should follow and the girl will never please everyone. In almost all cases the girl has a career they're trying to sustain and profit from and they're making decisions based on what they think is best for them. Meanwhile, most fans only care about what they want to see and that's about it. Do they really care about racial equality or is the truth they only bring up racial equality because it serves to get them what they want? Are these people standing up for equality in the real world and in other places or just on pornsites trying to get the porn they want to jack to? Do fans really care if a girl is supposedly losing out on work because she's not doing IR or is it just another thing to bring up to speak negatively about a girl who isn't giving that fan what they want? Is paying a girl more for IR really an issue to concern yourself with or is it a way to put someone else down and feel morally superior? Why does a fan feel they know when it's best for a girl to do IR or a gangbang or whatever? What exactly is that based on? It's all based on that fan wanting to a specific thing and when they don't get it they rationalize that the people who aren't giving it to them are horrible people who doing things out of spite, hate or stupity.
^I pretty much agree with everything you said but for me when I talk about a specific time a she should do IR I'm talking about my standards and mine alone. I don't know what's best for a girls career or whatever, all I know is who/what I'm gonna spend my money on or not. I'm not gonna spend my money on a girl that treats working with a black man as the most extreme thing you can do in porn by doing it after they do everything else or I'm not gonna spend my money on a girl that wants for over a decade to work with a black man. I know that most girls probably don't look at working with a black man as the most degrading thing you can do in porn but it comes off that way when they do everything else or refuse to work with them for so long.
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Mass Facialties Deactivated User
"Facialized Vol. 7" 2021 AVN Awards Winner: Best Oral Movie 9308 Posts 9/13
Posted - Jun 14 2015 : 5:42PM
Once again, Draxxx has made a post that I completely agree with.
Skepticism is the beginning of faith 50 Posts 5/15
Posted - Jun 14 2015 : 8:26PM
^^^ I agree with you, you can’t please everybody, and that is the nature of life itself, one makes the decisions they think will profit them financially or make them happy. Whatever the girls do, some people will be unhappy. I will be happy if a girl does IR early in her career while others will stop watching them as soon as they work with a black man. As far as rules go, of course we have formulated our own rules, everybody sets their rules when they decide where to spend their money just like the girls are setting their rules to make more money. Some people will never shop at certain stores because those stores have some policies they disagree with. And correct me if I am wrong, but I am pretty sure you yourself have rules. I would guess that when you go buy your porn, you don’t close your eyes and pick whatever movie is there. You will check them, see which ones have girls you like and genres you like and you will buy those products that fit your taste. That is a rule. Different people will lose interest in a girl depending on whether said girl has gained weight, lost weight, got implants, got too tanned, started doing anal, did trans-sex, did IR, and I could go on. All those are rules. All our buying decisions are based on rules, conscious or unconscious, that we've all set. I will, just as you do, defend any girl’s right to do as she wants. What I find funny is that you think the rules the girls set and the decisions they make are logical and very intelligent because as you said, they are running a career. That is a valid point. On the other hand, you seem not to understand why IR fans also have rules and want what they want when they want it. IR Porn is not the only business where this is the case. Every consumer want what they when they want it. There is nothing petty and childish about it. What is petty and childish is being in someone’s face and attacking them for not running their life and career as you see it fit rather than focusing on the people who run their career the way you would like them to. Edited by - Solaar pleure on 6/14/2015 8:26:52 PM Edited by - Solaar pleure on 6/14/2015 8:29:13 PM
^ Her situation is one problem with a monopolized industry but the money is not much if a known actress isn't making at 1500 per scene the industry is ripe for a new era. For IR to still be a novelty in this day and age is another reason to revolutionize the industry.
Those that think that this is going to change anytime soon need to stop kidding themselves. Like the blog post says if true, a performer barely 4 months into her career is getting offered 4K for her first IR and lets be honest Olivia doesn't exactly have the highest profile what does that say? It says that waiting can be a viable strategy for some of these girls like it or not. It says that some producer sees that a potential first will probably cost more in the future might figure that they will try to get it the first on the lower end of the premium scale, and that producer trying to get in early tells the performer that hey I have something that could be potentially huge money so why not wait. Now the performer is taking a big risk here because 4k could be the best offer she ever gets for her first as well so playing the game is doesn't guarantee it will pay off. Look some girls are gonna go do it right out of the gate some girls are gonna wait six months some are gonna wait years. There is no need to stress yourself out over this, this is suppose to be entertainment. Just stick to your own personal standards for a girl doing IR, be that a cap on their time in the industry or the acts they do. Just like previous posters have said just as these girls have the right to pick and choose who they perform with and when they perform with them, you also have the right to buy or not buy it when they do perform the scene. If girl X and Y catch your eye and girl X wants to play the waiting game and girl Y doesn't play the game throw your support and more importantly your dollars behind girl Y if you enjoy the IR genre. There are so many girls at agencies that want to shoot and are available for IR right now but go into any IR related threads and you see way too many girl X's. If any change is going to come it will have to come from the fans. Fans of the genre need to show more support for those that aren't playing the game. If IR fans concentrated on them more then maybe the waiting game would be less of a problem. I would venture that you would probably enjoy porn even more as well.
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - Jun 15 2015 : 12:15AM
^I suppose the $4k is due to her being a "pawg"??? It's quite a bit of money to offer to a pornstar with limited name recognition. EDIT: So let's say that after a year in the industry Olivia is a big enough name that she begins to get a lot of questions about IR. I wonder if she'll repeat what she wrote? Edited by - misspornUSA on 6/15/2015 1:05:53 AM
First off, that insert was from my own personal blog and had the sole purpose of explaining my experience with a non reputable agency, it had nothing to do with shooting IR... And I will be one of the first ones to say I think it's ridiculous how they make IR and regular B/G so separate. And especially because IR could be with any race, not just black, you could have Black, Asian, Spanish, etc. But regardless of what I think and believe, the industry is ran a certain way and is very political just like many entertainment industries. And yes, you are right, I do not have a very big name yet, which is the REAL reason I have held off from doing any of my firsts yet. I am only 6 months into the business right now, by me saying its "too soon" isn't because I was waiting for a bigger payday, it's because I'm waiting to build a bigger brand for myself. Think of it like a step ladder, I started off doing B/G and G/G, so I want to build a fan base for those scenes first before I make the next step up the ladder. Once I develop a decent brand/name for myself in those categories, I can continue to make more steps up the ladder.
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Curtom Deactivated User
293 Posts 8/14
Posted - Jun 15 2015 : 6:57AM
[/quote] I think Jasmine Cairo but I'm not positive and of course the ringleader: Shy Love. But I replied to this comment because I saw Carmen Caliente and I remember seeing a Pornhub interview with some Asian comedian and Mia Lelani where Carmen answered to "Your best sexual experience" with the following: "A big black cock in my pussy." Yeah, figure I'd just drop that there since it's relevant now [/quote] Is Shy Love really the ringleader?
Yes, I do have rules. I don't have any rules about when a girl does IR but I have rules about a lot of things and some pretain to IR. For example there are some girls I usually don't go out of my way to watch unless she's doing IR because I think their IR stuff is best work. But the with all those rules I have I understand they're my rules and don't expect any girl or company to bend to my rules and don't put them down if they aren't following my silly made up rules. I don't complain because my made up rules aren't being followed. I might say what I'd like to see but I don't complain or put people down about it...for the most part. The Christy Stevens thing I mentioned before annoyed me because she lied but that's her decision and while it turned me off to her to a degree I respect that it was her decision to make even if I didn't like it.No. I don't think every girl makes a "logical" or "very intelligent" career choice. But it's what they think is right for them. Even if they choose wrong, it's their wrong choice to make and live with. They should have the choice to do whatever they think is best for them. Plus, they may have very valid reasons for their choices that we will never know about. So it's hard to for me personally to sit back and judge a girl's decision because I don't know her personally or know all the facts.I totally understand porn fans want what they want when they want it. But the rest of the world doesn't work that way, why should it be different with porn? I really want GAME OF THRONES to have new episodes 9 months out of the year. I really want the new CAPTAIN AMERICA movie to come out next week. I really wanted Summer Cummings did more hardcore B/G before she retired. The list goes on...But as any sensible adult knows...you can't always get what you want. Listen...in a perfect porn world every girl would enter porn and can't wait to to do anal, DPs, IR, and gangbangs as soon as they sign the contract. Every studio would have an IR line, an all anal line, a big butt line, a hardcore line, and a specialty line to cater to whatever a person wants to see. All girls would have long successful careers and stay active for many years. But the reality is that there are many, many varibles that keep all that from happening. First being that's unsustainable, second, those girls are real flesh and blood people who have thoughts and minds of their own and not sexbots to do whatever fans want to see.
I think Jasmine Cairo but I'm not positive and of course the ringleader: Shy Love. But I replied to this comment because I saw Carmen Caliente and I remember seeing a Pornhub interview with some Asian comedian and Mia Lelani where Carmen answered to "Your best sexual experience" with the following: "A big black cock in my pussy." Yeah, figure I'd just drop that there since it's relevant now
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Is Shy Love really the ringleader?
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Here's an interesting thing about Shy Love. Shy actually directed an IR movie and there's a part of the behind the scenes footage where she say she doesn't want to see an of that "interracial shit" (perhaps not the exact word she used but she was clearly saying she didn't want to see any of the stereotypical stuff). So Shy is another pornstar that didn't/doesn't like the way some IR was being portrayed in movies. Also, when asked what celeb she wanted to bang she named LL Cool J.
You're totally justified to not spend money on any porn you don't like for any reason. Not talking about you specifically, but I just think it's unjustifed when a fan puts a girl or studio down or make harsh accusations about anyone based on their own set of made up rules. It's totally fine to say I won't watch that girl because she won't do IR. It's a whole other thing when a fan feels they have top justify their choice saying a girl is racist, or thinks black men are beneath them, or they find the idea of banging a black guy degrading, or they're horrble people because they won't do IR.But just because you or others see it that way doesn't make it true because you and most others usually don't know that girl personally. Again and again and again we've heard stories of girls not being able to do IR because of agents. Because of the people arond them not wanting them to. Because of their black boyfriend/husband not wanting them to shoot with other black guys. What about the girls who do black guys in their personal or other business life but just not on camera? I just think it's wrong to judge anyone that harshly based on such little info as whether they banged a black man on camera...within the alloted time a fan has decided it should happen. But that's me.
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - Jun 15 2015 : 2:00PM
She didn't like the way that some IR was portrayed, so she didn't shoot any IR at all?
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Interracial4Life Deactivated User
329 Posts 3/15
Posted - Jun 15 2015 : 2:45PM
^^ Not all people or IR fans don't agree with you Draxxx. They have the right to support girls who do IR from the started, and like that other person said they didn't play the game. She have the right not to do black men but it's IR fans that have the right not to watch her or on companies that don't hire black men. It's also the right to support girls who do IR and companies that shoot it. Remember it's the fans have the right to support, and buy who they liked I'm shocked that Olivia, Nikki, and Carter came on this thread to address this but I know more performers will join in, no director is beside Kevin Moore haven't said anything on this yet because they are the one who booked the scene and set the paid for these performers. I would love to hear that they think on this.
I'm not an actor, but I play one on TV 911 Posts 4/06
Posted - Jun 15 2015 : 5:03PM
^ IR4L, No one is saying that you are supposed to support girls or studios that don't shoot porn to your liking. That's not the point at all. Like whatever you want. Support whomever you want. That's your right. The point I think Draxxx has been trying to make, and the point I've definitely been trying to make is that some people act as if the entire porn industry and every performer should make porn just to their liking. And that is ridiculous. No consumer of porn has any right whatsoever to expect any performer or any studio to do anything to their liking. A person's rights as a consumer are extremely limited. You have the right to buy what is produced. You have the right to not buy what is produced. You have the right to praise or complain about what is and isn't produced, and that's about the extent of it. But the porn industry (collectively studios and talent) don't owe anyone a damn thing other than what they've already paid for. They don't owe any a F/F scene. They don't owe anyone a F/M scene, they don't owe anyone an IR scene, they don't owe anyone an explanation why they didn't shoot a F/F, F/M or IR scene. But the right to complain about something isn't the same thing as being justified in complaining about something. And what I've been pointing out (and I think Draxxx is saying something similar but I don't want to speak for him) is that while plenty of people in this thread complaining about things may very well have the right to complain, a lot of the complaints aren't reasonable or justified. You can invent whatever set of rules and guidelines that you want for the industry to follow, but since they almost certainly are unaware of your rules, and definitely not under any obligation to follow them. your rules are for you not anyone else. Nobody else is ever under any obligation to follow some set of arbitrary rules that you've made up, ever. Just like you're under no obligation to follow any set of arbitrary rules that I've made up. It's very much within my right to complain about people using poor grammar, but that is just my rule for how people should communicate and no one is under any obligation to follow my rules. That's not unique to porn, that's simply part of being a decent human being living in a free society.
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - Jun 15 2015 : 5:33PM
I would also be interested to hear what directors and producers have to say on this issue. Jimmy Hooligan commented a couple times on page 1 but that's all we've heard from that side of the industry. Like you I'm surprised and impressed that several pornstars chose to contribute to this thread, especially Nikki Benz.
Skepticism is the beginning of faith 50 Posts 5/15
Posted - Jun 15 2015 : 7:07PM
This whole discussion about rules is going in a loop, and I hate to be redundant. I will just say this and I am done discussing silly rules as Draxxx called. My rules are my rules, when I speak, I only speak for myself. IR porn is not an army and I am not its general. I don’t expect anybody to run their careers the way I see fit. I will just deal with the ones whose choices coincide with my taste. By the way Draxxx, and I don’t mean to derail the thread, but I think it is funny you mentioned game of thrones, the author of the books has been harassed consistently by book readers because he does not write fast enough.
I'm just telling what she did and what she said because someone brought up her name in regard to IR. Obviously, she had issues with a certain type of IR portrayal. Obviously, she doesn't completely rule out IR sex for herself. Anything other than that I'm not interested in speculating.
I referred to the "rules" as silly for impact and because some of the made up rules are. That wasn't me specifically calling your personal rules "silly" although I tend to think some of mine are. Although I'm responding to a post I'm not always talking about about that person specifically. While you may be speaking for yourself when you talk of your rules there are others who think everyone shares their rules and/or those rules must be obeyed. The GAME OF THRONES thing is another great example of people wanting what they want when they want it. That's not always a good thing. I'd much rather Martin take his time and do his best work than rush something out just to applease fans who would very very quick to critize the work if it wasn't as good as they felt it should be. George R. Martin, like the pornstar should do what they feel is best for themselves in the long run.
Posted - Jun 11 2015 : 1:53PM
