Well I'm sure we won't agree on this point but I don't think of Riley, AJ, and Kagney as "dodgers" as I tend to think of people using the term (but maybe I'm wrong about the definition). I tend think of a "dodger" as a girl who has a strong stance about not doing IR and holds off doing for a lengthy time or not doing it at all. The 3 girls you name didn't wait that long to do it and I thought Kagney dated black men. This goes back to what I said earlier about fans expecting all girls to do everything as soon as they enter porn. I guess I can understand wanted a girl to do IR or anal or whatever right from the start but girls don't have a checklist of things they must do with an expiration date on it. Also, not all see IR as something they need to rush to do. That doesn't mean they have anything against black guys but they enter a business where the majority of the studios mostly shoot white on white and they get enough work from those to keep busy without searching out IR work in the beginning. Clearly the 3 girls mentioned here seem to have no problem banging black guys and I find it strange that anyone would think of them as "dodgers" in any sense at this point when didn't hold off that long and IR is a big part of their output. Just curious (for anyone wanting to chime in)...Do you automatically consider a girl a "dodger" until she does IR no matter how long she's been it the business? Can she be considered a "dodger" if she did IR at some point but stops doing it completely later in her career? Do you hold resentment against a girl who you think held off too long to do IR and won't watch them when they finally do?
No, no and no. As a matter of fact, I hate using the term dodger in general.
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DiamondJackman Deactivated User
Straight From My Brown Balls, Using Good Pussy 501 Posts 10/15
Posted - Jul 8 2016 : 12:31PM
I consider girls that have publicly dismissed IR as a whole like (Brandi Love, Carter Cruise, Tasha Reign etc) and girls who waited at least over half a decade (Alison Tyler, Nikki Benz, Amy Reid) to be "dodgers". Edited by - Diamondjackman on 7/8/2016 12:33:25 PM
The term dodger is weird because it does not have a universal definition among IR porn fans. For some guys it is a length of time thing, for some it is a number of scenes things, still for others it is about what acts she performs. I would call most girls IR avoiders or IR waiters while they are performer once their career is over and if they had been around for a few years and they did just about everything but IR definitely a dodger. If her career has generally followed along this path though well to parphrase Jeff Foxworthy. You Might be a dodger. year 1: say nothing avoid ir questions and requests or say not for a while just starting out year 2: Not attracted to black guys, I'm pacing my career gotta save some things, Cant handle the BBC Personal cutoff for me after 2 years in I dont care anymore. year 3: I have been with black guys off camera, I dont like the way it is shot, I will only shoot with this performer/director/company year 4: IR is something special and worth alot I want to own it myself so it going to be on my website year 5: I want to do it as part of a showcase or I am looking for a contract to do it year 6: Please stop asking me it is annoying, these constant request make me not wanna do it, Ill do it when I feel like year 6+: I have done all that I have wanted to do and it is time to begin a new chapter in my life. Does interview later on: Int: One thing you never did in your career was IR PS: Oh gosh I knew you were gonna ask that, Well I as always open to it when I was performing I would have but I just was never asked to do a scene. As for the girls who wait until the 11th hour of their career and do a token scene at the end of their career for one last big payday these are usually very underwhelming/disappointing so I tend to avoid them until I hear from reviews, but there are those performers that have outright said some things that have completely turned me off of them because of their attitude toward IR so even if they went on to run the IR gauntlet I just could not watch because I would go in thinking she is not into the scene and if she is not again the scene turns out bad. I would no call it resentment though, I would lean more towards apathy.
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Zy28 Deactivated User
251 Posts 2/12
Posted - Jul 9 2016 : 3:08AM
Kandace Kayne (@kandacekaynexxx) on twitter apparently had a lot to say about the practice of paying girls more for IR. She came down pretty hard against it and mentioned that she's heard about girls being paid $10k for their first scene. But she tweeted that she'll stick with her standard b/g rate for her first scene. And she mentioned that she was criticized for that decision by people and some said that she should take the extra money. Edited by - Zy28 on 7/9/2016 3:18:45 AM
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DiamondJackman Deactivated User
Straight From My Brown Balls, Using Good Pussy 501 Posts 10/15
I have no problem with what she's saying because she's talking about specific black men/producers. She says she has a problem working with those particular people because they are unprofessional and she's entitled to that opinion because maybe she's right. I don't get a vibe that she simply doesn't want to work with any black people...only those that sees as unprofessional. She makes the distinction that she's talking about non-US porn people. If she was talking about any and all black men then I'd see it as racist.
I'm not crazy about the term "dodger" either but it would be nice to understand other people's definition of it when reading or engaging in these discussions. But clearly it seems everyone has there own definition of the term and everyone of them will feel theirs is the correct one. What I find most interesting is the level of resentment some have for these girls who don't follow some people's made up rules.
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - Jul 9 2016 : 10:54AM
She clarified what she meant in the discussion that followed. It's understandable that she would assume that her followers know where she is located and that they would interpret her statement in that context.
This. Spot on and hilarious. And as for the whole "dodger" discussion, I don't consider a girl a "dodger" intil she's 2 years in and/or is doing all of the real hardcore stuff e.g Anal, dp, gangbangs etc. Before doing IR, in that case I don't resent any girl, I just don't watch her scenes. End of story. Edited by - bobmarblee on 7/9/2016 11:58:27 AM
I dunno she's mixed race, was planning on working with a black performer who flaked and supposedly works with black men on Custom vids and webcam.
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DiamondJackman Deactivated User
Straight From My Brown Balls, Using Good Pussy 501 Posts 10/15
Posted - Jul 10 2016 : 6:33AM
No, the poster asked her if she would IR and she decided that because one black producer flaked that somehow means all others will flake in future. That's practically the attitude Brandi Love, Tasha Reign and Cater Cruise had about IR before they did a scene.
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DiamondJackman Deactivated User
Straight From My Brown Balls, Using Good Pussy 501 Posts 10/15
Posted - Jul 10 2016 : 6:33AM
No, the poster asked her if she would IR and she decided that because one black producer flaked that somehow means all others will flake in future. That's practically the attitude Brandi Love, Tasha Reign and Cater Cruise had about IR before they did a scene.
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DiamondJackman Deactivated User
Straight From My Brown Balls, Using Good Pussy 501 Posts 10/15
Posted - Jul 10 2016 : 6:33AM
No, the poster asked her if she would IR and she decided that because one black producer flaked that somehow means all others will flake in future. That's practically the attitude Brandi Love, Tasha Reign and Cater Cruise had about IR before they did a scene.
She's talking about a producer who cancelled two days worth of work just before they shoot , mind you she's talking producers not performers also she called as equally unprofessional a black independent producer and performer , she says she would work with whoever is professional. when asked about Blacked, Dogfart and athers she said , it's up to them if I work with them. she has no problem doing IR but got some bad experiences from some black producers in Europe, mind you the one cancelling her work was American
*Sigh...* She clearly says "producers/actors NOT in the US". She's talking about having problems with the smaller independent porn producers where she's from. She points out that there aren't many/any big studios there. Perhaps all the black porn people there are doing things she doesn't like and acting unprofessional. If they are behaving unprofessionally and she knows it she would be stupid to work with them. And it's possible Brandi, Tasha, and Carter had real issues with the way they perceived certain people handled IR until they found people they felt comfortable with and then they were willing to do it. There are lots of people in porn who won't work with certain people or do certain things because they have a problem with it but later will do those things when they find someone the feel comfortable working with. But those things aren't on your radar because it's not a black/white thing.
You just gave the perfect reason why pacing can be beneficial to some girls. I've said this over and over and some of you will never agree with it but these girls who do porn don't have a "to do" list that lists certain things they must do in porn within a certain time frame. And just because some people porn plan-a-gram in their head with made-up expiration dates on when to do certain things doesn't mean the girl is obligated to follow it. Porn is a business where it's very competitive and you must have a plan to get/stay popular and make your career last. If Alison had a plan to hold off on IR until her career needed a boost then perhaps it was a good move. If she had been doing IR all along she would've still probably been at this point where her popularity has started to fade. But she held something back and now she can play that card and it might get people interested again. Perhaps she can build a new audience that will sustain her a bit longer. Maybe getting paid more prompted her to do it now. Maybe if there wasn't a bigger payday she would've waited 6 months later to do IR. Only she knows that. There's nothing wrong with a girl not holding off on doing IR or certain sex acts or not planning on doing them at all then changing their plans later despite some people here trying to make it sound like they're horrible people for doing so. A girl might be with a guy who doesn't want her to do IR or whatever. Her management might advise against it. Maybe she has a preconceived notion of black men that changes over time. Maybe she didn't like the way she saw IR handled and someone started shooting IR that they thought was more in line with what they wanted to do. Maybe they didn't have a burning desire to shoot IR and they could get along just fine without it. Things happen and causes people to make changes. That's life. Anyone who wants to boycott a girl just because the didn't do whatever in the made up allotted time they gave them are free to do so but it all seems like a silly waste of time.
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - Jul 10 2016 : 11:51AM
"She clarified what she meant in the discussion that followed." Agree or disagree? "It's understandable that she would assume that her followers know where she is located and that they would interpret her statement in that context." Agree or disagree?
I see what you're saying, and after seeing her other IR positive tweets But that one tweet Jackman pointed to does come off as generalized. I could easily see how someone construes that as racist - and far be it from me to throw that word around lightly. I disagree with DJ a lot, but on that tweet I could see it being ill-advised with negative misguided results. What I believe she means, as you say, is that when answering the frequent fan question of why doesnt she do more IR, she's having more problems in arranging things with black talent and it meeting her expectations. The issue shouldn't be about anytime or every time, all or never. The issue is about more or less. And in her experience she is having more problems with them. But we may not necessarily read that as her saying she will never any more IR. It comes off bad though and very much overreacting. But since we do not know the circumstances of her 2 day shoot being canceled and who is really to blame for that or what the reasons were, it's not impossible that she is within her rights to be angry. Was she going to burn them and thats why the cancel? Or did she feel burned? I want to hear DickDrainers side of this.
It's not supposedly works with black men. She does, unless those pictures are photoshopped and she's robbing people via false advertising. I'm interested in those scenes, but custom videos are outta my budget right now lol.
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DiamondJackman Deactivated User
Straight From My Brown Balls, Using Good Pussy 501 Posts 10/15
Posted - Jul 11 2016 : 3:03AM
Lex basically confirmed that it is the agents that control IR How has the interracial genre evolved over the years and where do you see it going in the future? STEELE: The interracial market and the genre has… I wouldn’t say evolved, and I wouldn’t say devolved… I will say that it’s been stagnant. But I will say that its movement has been lateral at best, because you have a number of issues that are complicating the genre. And for this, I point directly at the talent management agencies. As the industry has shrunk and there’s less money to produce as many titles, the agents are having an increasingly difficult time finding work for their talent. So for the girls doing interracial, they had to find a different price point, different reasons to create more money for them. So, by making interracial a price point differential, it gave them another thing to use. Say a white girl charges $900 for a boy/girl. At the beginning, 10 years ago, an IR scene would’ve cost the same, $900. But now, with an IR price point, agents can say, “Look, I can get you $1,100 — boy/girl with a white guy is $900, but boy/girl with a black guy is $1,100.” IR anal is also a price point. The agents will try to say, “Well, look, she’s going to be working with a bigger dick, so we’re charging a premium.” And that is bullshit, because now, more than ever, black men no longer hold the exclusivity on size, especially not in porno. So, the size differential is absolutely bullshit. How do you escape working with me, when you’ve got to work with Manuel Ferrara, or Steve Holmes or Chris Strokes? There’s no escaping larger size. So, the agents who made it a dollar issue have changed the genre. You got certain agents who will speak to white directors one way, and then speak to me in a different way for the same girl. What they don’t know is, I have personal relationships with these directors, not just business relationships, so I get a call from another director that says, “Yo, watch out for such-and-such, this is the way they’re actually rolling over there.” That being said, everyone understands the genre remains one of the most important genres in the business because everyone enjoys interracial — it’s kind of like the meeting ground where everyone can find something they enjoy and I think equally important is you’re seeing increasing value for black females and white men together. It’s not just a genre that is simply black male with white female. And in answer to that, I launched a series called “White Man’s Revenge” through Mercenary — it was white guys working with black women. Now, you see what Dogfart does with a number of their titles, which skew the interracial line to the proverbial “reverse interracial.” So, I think the genre has always been important. I’m happy that I remain an important part of it. And I’m also very keen to the responsibility of being one of the flag-bearers, if not the bellwether for interracial. And this is my 18th year — there’s been whole studios created to feed my brand. It’s crazy, but true. I think as far as the girls, though… I’ve never had a problem with them. The girls that are in this business are perhaps the coolest women, period. And it may be because you have to be, to be in this business. But the girls are literally the coolest women you’re ever going to meet. Very rarely is it the woman that’s got a problem working with me because I’m black. It could be an association — maybe the comfort of the boyfriend or maybe her agency has different directions for her career. So, I never trip out. People ask me all the time about the girls — we don’t have a problem with the girls. It’s not the chick, it’s the people that hold sway in that woman’s life. And charging premiums for interracial doesn’t really help the talent. A girl that would normally do 10 scenes a month could end up garnering just six scenes a month. Why? Because she charges 150 percent of her rate for an interracial boy/girl scene and there’s always someone who’s willing to pay that extra $200 or so. But, she’s losing out on the opportunity to exponentiate her monthly revenue by doing more scenes overall, and that’s a fact. And another fallacy is that a woman is going to lose fans for doing this, that or the other. Bearing in mind, that the percentage of fans a woman would lose for IR, pales in comparison to the percentage she would gain. So, nobody wins with premiums. The agencies might claim there’s a win, but the loser is definitely the talent. And as a producer of IR, I can tell you there are plenty of women who will do it. If you don’t, the market continues to go around you, so do you want to expose yourself to that money or not? Look at the return of certain stars, in what is the reviving of their careers — some of them didn’t do IR before and it revived their career completely. Why would someone deny themselves the expansion this business can offer? The one color that matters in this business is green. And the talent needs to be aware of that. I never get caught up in whether a girl will do IR. I’m like, well that’s cool, I won’t be able to pay her, I won’t be able to cast her in my movies. Who’s the loser here? I’m still going to get a girl, I just won’t be able to pay that girl. But I do realize that someone needs to explain it and I’m happy to explain it. I think an even greater disgrace is what’s happening with some of the way male talent is handled. You’re also seeing the disintegration of the traditional black female as talent. This is something I’ve seen over the life of my career, what happened to her is a big question. I think what happened is, you saw black women that were built classically… classically identifiable as a black woman — whether that was the measure of her posterior, the type of performance scene she did or the quality of her sexuality. Again, green is the only color that matters, and once the green started drying up, studios were shooting less and that meant that work for certain elements of talent was going to diminish. So, if you were a classically black woman and black-on-black wasn’t being shot as much anymore — and you’re not one of those crossover talents — then the work was no longer there for you. So, the black girls built classically gave way to the ones with crossover appeal. That makes it difficult to maintain the all-ethnic product, because when consumers are looking for the classically built black girl, they’re seeing the ones that are representative now. It might sound argumentative for me to say that, but I’m certainly qualified to make that statement. That being said, whether it’s Misty Stone or Channell Heart or Skyler Nicole or Nadia Jay, Porsha Carrera, a number of these sisters are truly stellar talent. Whether it’s Teanna Trump, Sadie Santana, there’s spectacularly beautiful women that can perform exceptionally and would’ve been stars in any era. But it’s just the notion of rarely do you see a Cherokee D’ass or Beauty Dior — there’s a number of classically built sisters that the marketplace has narrowed to the point of invisibility. And it’s interesting because, the juxtaposition is, you see an increase of white girls that are built like classic black women. So, what’s being celebrated now is the look of a classic black woman that has been replaced by a similarly built white girl. It makes it very, very difficult for black female talent to survive. What I can do, is release titles like the XBIZ Award-winning series “Black Panthers,” but I only release maybe four of those titles a year in the rotation of my series. I’m crudely aware of the status of my sisters. Even with the black male talent, there are issues, because a lot of times people are like, “Oh, Lex never hires black male talent other than himself.” But, what they have to remember is, I’m at the point where my brand is me having sex with the girl. If you get to the point where your brand is being the sole dude fucking a girl, then you’ve made it there. People forget there’s a huge responsibility when you’ve got to carry all the weight. A lot of people would pale under all that weight. Do I get tired? Hell yeah I get tired, because I can’t dial in a scene. I literally cannot dial in a scene. To the people that want to say I don’t hire other dudes, no, my movies are showcases — what happens when this girl gets placed in the ring with this male talent, which is me — I worked for that. But, there’s weight behind it. To give an example, when I do an “Impaler” — Jules Jordan and I maybe do one or two of those a year — literally, the interracial marketplace within the width of that title coming out is filled with anticipation. The pressure is so high when I’m doing scenes for that series, way more than when I do my own shit. The reason being, the higher you get up the food chain, people forget, the greater the weight of your actions. When I started, if I was doing a three on one, I’d disappear among the other dudes. As you move through certain price ranges and rates, you got guys focused on doing the multiples. Well, the dudes that are in that price range, doing the two on ones, the three on ones… let me tell you something. Enjoy that. Because, the next level is where all the weight is on you — you get paid more money, but you get all the weight. Do you want a blockbuster release that the title alone makes it a blockbuster release? You have to live up to that and deliver a blockbuster release. I mean shit, man, the girls that you work with? The higher up the food chain you get, the more expensive these girls are, which means the studio’s less likely to hire a cheaper guy, because they’re all in with their chips. Do you have any idea the pressure of fucking up a scene, with a $4,000 girl? Right? You know what I’m saying? Can people fathom the pressure that Manuel Ferrara has, to do the “Manuel Ferrara” thing for all the titles that he’s in, each month? So, there’s a commensurate challenge that comes with ascension and I love it, I thrive on it but sometimes… I don’t buckle under it, but I have failed. And even for me, when I fail, there are times the director is afraid to cut the scene and there are times I’ve failed in front of my close associates, who told me that they’re cutting the scene — whether it’s Kevin or Jules, two directors who have absolutely no problem shutting a scene of mine down if I’m underperforming. And I appreciate that. I wish other directors would have the fortitude to tell a performer when they are not delivering. So it’s a challenge for everybody but it’s my 18th year and I probably will go until my 20th, just as a number. And I also have a number with my Evil Angel releases, I don’t know if I’ll get to that number before my two years are up. I’ve completed my 40th release recently and I’d like to complete my 200th before my time is up, which is a tall order. Mathematically, it doesn’t lend itself to two years, so I may not make 200 Evil Angel titles — but I will make it to 20 years! http://www.xbiz.com/news/209859 Edited by - Diamondjackman on 7/11/2016 3:04:12 AM
^ Lex went in, and I really appreciate it. I also love the part where he talks about the pressure of being "that guy". If people ever wonder why we see the same 5-10 guys doing everyone's first anal, or first IR, that's why. You're not trusting that scene to a guy that you don't completely and totally trust to get the job done.
^ Yeah, but do they really "control" that if no one is willing to pay? If producers are willing to pay, doesn't that mean it's worth it? How can it be worth that extra cost, unless consumers justify it? Again, as I've always said, it's justified by consumers. We are the reason it costs extra, because there is a unique value which the extra demand gives it. BTW, try telling Katrina Jade that her agent controls her rates. She got into a bitter exchange with a fan of hers who was talking about the IR rate controversy, and that fan merely said the same thing Lex said, that it's agents out there who ask for extra money because, duh, that's their job. Seems like a no brainer. But Katrina wasn't having it. She said "agents are not pimps", and that they do not make girls do what they don't want to do. So Katrina says those rates are as much the responsibility of the performers. If a female is getting paid more for IR, then she damn well knows it too. No one puts a gun to their heads saying they have to charge more, and if a female decides against that, then she doesn't have to charge more. Many performers have spoken up about this, and many have taken that stand against demanding an extra fee. But notice no performers out there are demanding less money overall. No surprise no one is giving money away. But again for the millionth time, I think the whole issue is being blown out of proportion. First off, 100 or 200 bucks extra for a once in a career thing is not a huge deal. And 2, consumers justify it. No one in the industry would ever pay more for it if it wasn't worth it. Agents negotiate, but lets not bow down to them by declaring that they "control" market value. No one person can control that. Except Ben Bernanke or the Bilderberg group and Illuminati! Edited by - Melvyn on 7/11/2016 10:43:07 AM Edited by - Melvyn on 7/11/2016 10:47:24 AM
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - Jul 11 2016 : 11:13AM
^^^So, do you intend to criticize agents from now on instead of pornstars?
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DiamondJackman Deactivated User
Straight From My Brown Balls, Using Good Pussy 501 Posts 10/15
Posted - Jul 11 2016 : 12:49PM
^^Funny, you're so in denial aren't you? Why are they charging more based on skin color? That is my definition racist. But here we go again with the money argument. Lex even points out the absurdity of this when work is slowing down and work is drying up. They further restrict work by dodging. ^^^It's the agent that has large amounts of influence, not saying pornstars themselves can't make decisions but they trust these agents a lot. Edited by - Diamondjackman on 7/11/2016 12:50:50 PM
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - Jul 11 2016 : 12:57PM
According to Lex it does come down to money; "As the industry has shrunk and there’s less money to produce as many titles, the agents are having an increasingly difficult time finding work for their talent. So for the girls doing interracial, they had to find a different price point, different reasons to create more money for them. So, by making interracial a price point differential, it gave them another thing to use." According to him it's foolish from a business perspective, but he never denies that the issue is money: "The one color that matters in this business is green."
^^^ That $100 to $200 extra isn't a first IR rate, he's saying that's a general IR rate. If we're talking about firsts, the number they're getting is higher than that. And the truth is that most performers, especially for their first year or two, don't really know anything about how the industry works behind the scenes. That's the whole reason you have an agent, because they're the ones that know this stuff and are supposed to work with/for you to handle these things. So if your agent, who has been around for years/decades, tells you that this is how it works and how it has always worked, why wouldn't you believe him? Especially since, in your eyes, he's getting you more money.
Every agent and every girl isn't the same. Some agents have no sway over some girls. There are girls who will put more faith in their agent and will go along with what they say or recommend and there are girls who don't. There are agents who try to be more controlling/demanding than others and perhaps don't make a big deal about IR or charging more for it and some who don't. Lex didn't really say anything in that piece that anyone couldn't have figured out on their own if they were opened minded and didn't have an obvious bias. There have been girls who've said they didn't do IR because of their management or was talked out of it, so it's not like this is shocking news. Nikki Benz has said several times that she was open to IR but her management was against it. She got new management and now does IR fairly consistently. Obviously, her old management had enough sway over her to make her not fight them on it and do it or perhaps it wasn't worth the hassle to keep fighting on it. Who knows? In any case there's no evidence Nikki looked at black guys in a negative way and didn't do it because of any problems with black men. With other agents/management they might just advise a girl not to do it but at the same time tell the girl to do what she wants. Katrina might have one of the agents that doesn't try to be so controlling. From the agent's perspective I totally understand them encouraging a girl to try to get more money for IR because the more the girl makes the more the agent makes. The job of the agent is supposed to be to make the girl as much as you can and keep her working and earning. They are supposed to be there help them not get taken advantage of and to make the most of the oppurtunites out there. And yes, the fact that the producers/directors are willing to pay more for it speaks volumes. If the demand is there and the people producing the porn feels it's worth the extra cash then that means they're profiting from it. If they're profiting from it it's only fair the talent responsible get's a piece of that pie.
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Mass Facialties Deactivated User
"Facialized Vol. 7" 2021 AVN Awards Winner: Best Oral Movie 9308 Posts 9/13
Posted - Jul 11 2016 : 11:22PM
^ You are the "voice of reason" in this thread. It seems every time I read a post of yours in this thread, I find myself nodding in agreement.
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DiamondJackman Deactivated User
Straight From My Brown Balls, Using Good Pussy 501 Posts 10/15
Posted - Jul 12 2016 : 9:03AM
From 10:06 Some girls only want to do "light-skin" guys Any idea who those girls are exactly? Edited by - Diamondjackman on 7/12/2016 9:05:43 AM Edited by - Diamondjackman on 7/12/2016 9:06:16 AM
It's ALL about money. That's what we've been saying forever and that is what Lex confirms. Just because it's not fiscally worth it does not mean that is not the deciding factor for these prima donnas. They think it's the smart move, where once it might have been, or they have overinflated estimation of their own value. I made the EXACT point ages ago which Lex makes. I've been saying the same exact thing FOREVER. But you dismiss it as "the money argument." In the end, you can't simply scapegoat it on the performers being racist. If someone is willing to pay more for something, why would anyone be shocked that a person accepts the higher offer? Now ask yourself, for the MILLIONTH time, why are producers so willing to shell out extra money for IR? Is it because they are racist? NO! The producers are not racist. The performers are not racist. The fans and consumers who DRIVE this whole practice are not racist! No one is racist for making more money off of IR or paying more for it. The whole reason performers ask for more and producers willingly, even eagerly, pay extra - sometimes to the tune of $4,000 in the case of Riley Reid's first IR - is because IR fans demand this. This is what they want. Now are you going to indict all IR fans? The witch hunting has to stop. Lex himself will tell you it's not because these females are racist - at least not in most cases. Lex has intimated about general racism in the industry in years past, but more recently he has tempered those criticisms to the point they are effectively moot given the bigger picture. He just said the only color that matters is green. Even regarding this very specific practice of IR costing more, he doesn't call it racist, nor has he called out any performers as being racist. The word racism didn't even come up. In his view, it's not a good gamble for performers to push off IR in hopes of getting a big pay day. In very few cases, it may be worth it, but for most that seems a dubious proposition. Again, I made the VERY SAME argument questioning the business sense of postponing IR for so long, and I made it long before that interview took place. Edited by - Melvyn on 7/12/2016 1:14:17 PM
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - Jul 12 2016 : 1:14PM
^^I assumed that Moe was talking about pornstars who will work with, say, Alex Jones but are waiting to shoot IR. Edited by - misspornUSA on 7/12/2016 1:15:11 PM
I'm thinking being "That Guy" will eventually go away for black guys unless they produce their own movies. After all this time we've really only had a few black guys that were able to move product for a sustained amount of time where they're the star of every scene. Lex, Mandingo, Shane, Sean M., and probably Prince. They tried it with Rico and for whatever reason it didn't last. Shorty Mac had a run for awhile. Richard Mann did okay for a bit. Ramone did okay but he really didn't get that popular. Jack Napier had a nice run. I'm thinking black guys being hired to showcase in another director's movie will eventually go away because it seems like the newer guys don't have that type of star power and that's more of a DVD thing. But I could be wrong.
^ I think there's already enough solid black male performers out there than within the next couple years we're going to find one or two of them that can carry a movie by themselves, in addition to the fact that even if Lex and Sean retire in the next couple years, I think we'll still be seeing Prince and Mandingo around for a good while longer. For example, I feel like before the whole thing happened with Leah, Rob Piper was getting to the point where he was building a good sized fan base for himself. And even besides that, I was talking about being "that guy" in terms of being the guy that gets hired to do the first IR of the big name performers, the women who are getting dedicated features or huge paychecks for their first IR scenes. The guys getting those scenes are the ones at the top of the heap, the most trustworthy and usually reliable of male performers. Which is basically the same reason these guys are given their own dedicated lines.
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DiamondJackman Deactivated User
Straight From My Brown Balls, Using Good Pussy 501 Posts 10/15
Posted - Jul 13 2016 : 2:44AM
Just found this, and this.... very interesting to see all these "dodgers". Edited by - Diamondjackman on 7/13/2016 2:46:45 AM Edited by - Diamondjackman on 7/13/2016 2:54:32 AM Edited by - Diamondjackman on 7/13/2016 2:56:18 AM
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Zy28 Deactivated User
251 Posts 2/12
Posted - Jul 13 2016 : 8:47AM
It really isn't *only* about money. If it was then dodgers wouldn't exist. And for some women and their agents it really is about race above all else. Even if it costs them lots of money. Also, I was surprised Lex mentioned that it was only a couple hundred extra for such scenes. Given the numbers that were tossed around in this thread I was under the impression some girls were getting $3000 or more for their first scene in that genre. Edited by - Zy28 on 7/13/2016 10:41:46 PM
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bacon cheesesteak Deactivated User
247 Posts 1/16
Posted - Jul 13 2016 : 9:23AM
From the Lex interview above:Out of curiosity, who are the $4,000 girls?
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DiamondJackman Deactivated User
Straight From My Brown Balls, Using Good Pussy 501 Posts 10/15
The first name that comes to mind on this topic is Nikki delano. Great points I agree with you.I heard that Alison tyler and Eva notty were offered to be in the first Lex's Breast Fest in 2013 but both turned it down. The points you make on popularity fading/ girls being too busy to shoot or other reasons all 3 girls I mention link to the points you made coincidence or not?
Dirty Wives Club 43 - review by Captain Jack
Posted - Jul 8 2016 : 11:51AM
