I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - Jul 28 2015 : 6:33PM
^She said on the show that her agent no longer distinguishes between IR and non-IR scenes, so if true then it's probably a matter of her just not getting booked.
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Interracial4Life Deactivated User
329 Posts 3/15
Posted - Jul 28 2015 : 6:35PM
^ Maybe she need a new agent that can get her more work, LA Direct is not a good ideal when it comes to IR because we know the owner is against it but he didn't tell that to Tori Black or KLKWell that isn't going t happen anytime soon because white companies will never do that to a black girls who is getting less work Edited by - Interracial4Life on 7/28/2015 6:37:06 PM
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fredgee Deactivated User
350 Posts 12/13
Posted - Jul 28 2015 : 6:48PM
Well that isn't going t happen anytime soon because white companies will never do that to a black girls who is getting less work
That is too much power to too few people. right now they know the business have the connections. The objective for open-minded sane people who enjoy porn is to change that... 'viva la revolucion'.
If we start arguing that, then we'd have to start arguing whether or not it's fair to charge more for first anything? It's the same amount of preparation for your first b/g scene and your 50th, so why do you get more for your first one? I understand the argument that your first IR scene should just count as another b/g scene, but the market has decided that that isn't the case, and because of that people are willing to pay girls extra for that specific scene.Yeah. Truthfully, she doesn't really shoot that much in the first place, and I doubt she's turning down many scenes for any reason. If she's not getting booked for IR, it's more than likely because no one's calling her about it.
Edited by - whatsatelephonebill on 7/28/2015 7:36:55 PM
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - Jul 28 2015 : 8:04PM
That doesn't explain why, in Allison's view, it is racist (the term she used) to charge more for IR scenes in general but not racist to charge more for "first IR" and "first IR anal." In both cases the pornstar is charging more to have sex with a black man. Edited by - misspornUSA on 7/28/2015 8:12:05 PM
^ The answer is simply because it's a "first". It might not be a good enough answer, but it's the answer you're probably going to get.
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Zy28 Deactivated User
251 Posts 2/12
Posted - Jul 29 2015 : 4:20PM
It is in fact racist and Allison is correct. As mentioned before, you're basically bribing a girl to work with someone who's Black who she wouldn't work with for a standard b/g fee. As for the "market" that's made up of directors choosing to bribe girls and some who chose not to. The customers aren't asking for that. So working with Black talent can and should be treated like any other b/g scene.
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fredgee Deactivated User
350 Posts 12/13
Posted - Jul 29 2015 : 4:32PM
The industry seems to be made up of followers now. Racism towards Blacks and Black women in particular doesn't seem like it is shared by everyone but they are going along with it anyway..
I'm not sure you understand the argument. Allison is saying that charging more for your first IR scene isn't racist. misspornUSA is asking if she (Allison) thinks it's racist to ask for more money every other time you shoot with a black man, why is it okay to ask for more money the first time you do it? And my answer is that the market has generally decided that they are more interested in seeing a girl's first IR scene than her subsequent ones, all other things being equal. Because of that, producers are willing to go the extra mile (and that includes paying girls money above their normal b/g rate) to entice them to shoot their first IR for that company (and, nowadays, to prevent her from shooting IR for any other company for a certain amount of time to maintain their exclusivity). The same thing is generally true for first b/g scenes (especially for girls crossing over from g/g), first anal, first DP, and pretty much every other first you see on a regular basis.
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - Jul 29 2015 : 8:46PM
^That sounds a lot like "It's not racist because it's the current business model", which would be a very strange claim for Allison (or anyone) to make, though it may very well be the answer that she would give.
As I mentioned before, I'm sure it was actual "bribing" to get some girls to do IR because they simply didn't want to do it and caved in due to the money offered. However, I don't see that being the case with every girl holding out for a bigger payday. I think probably most of the girls who hold out for more money have no problem with IR but have made the business decision to make as much money as they can from their first. I don't see the term "bribing" applying to them.I disagree that the "customers" aren't asking for it. It seems that a sizable segment of the people clamoring for girls to do IR don't care if the girl wants to or not, as long as the girl does it...and of course there's the part of the audience who doesn't care if the girl doesn't want to do as long as she does it and doesn't ask for more money to do it.
What I don't get is all those guys that get on twitter and harass pornstars for not doing IR. Like what are they a bunch of cuckolds? Maybe they need to go outside or get a job.
I'm not sure it can be had both ways. How can one be special but also 2nd class? Special should mean higher value, which contradicts 2nd class. You are right, IR is a major genre, one which I would contend is higher value than other genres. For instance, IR is one of the top 10 categories on most charts, and note I say categories not genres. Genres are broad, and while there are a wide variety, comparably not as many as there are categories, which are very specific and there's a myriad of them. If we're talking genre, then IR is typically in the top 5. Like I showed with the sales charts examples, which I have tons more of, it's a very in-demand genre. I think there's just a handful of big genres that are more popular than IR, such as anal and teen, which it's worth noting are not mutually exclusive with IR. There are also teen+IR series out there, as well as anal+IR, and even teen+anal+IR. But while IR is maybe in the top 5 or 10 genres, unlike those other genres such as teen, anal, or MILF, IR is inherently limited supply. There are simply way more white performers out there than black. And because IR is almost always a specific type of pairing, (WF with BM), that really gives a lot more negotiating power to the black male talent or their agents. IMO they could have formed a union and began demanding higher pay a long time ago. Whether it's official or not, if the top 10 or top 20 black male talent out there teamed up and decided to hold out for higher pay, they would get it. There really isn't that many out there, especially the guys with the biggest dicks who can also deliver solid performances consistently. Think about the anal genre. Is there any limit on that? There's literally thousands of performers out there who are available for it. The only limit is if you're looking only for 1st time anal, but anal in general is nowhere near as limited as IR in terms of supply. Same with MILFs. Nowadays they use performers in their early 20s as MILFs, and even teens can be used as MILFs if they have that look. Technically any female who looks like she could be a mom can be considered a MILF. So that's the majority of female performers. No scarcity there at all. So when it comes to not just the top genres, but if we evaluate the scarcity of supply versus the demand, IR must be very near the top. I'm not saying it's the #1 most demanded genre at all, but it is highly demanded, and also significantly limited in terms of supply by comparison with other genres. So to my mind that would appear to boost the value, particularly for the black male talent. So I should think any business man in porn who wants to stay in business would never benefit from regarding black male talent as 2nd class.
Also, I don't think that IR can take over "1/2 of the industry." While I speculate that the peak utilization or valuation of the IR genre has not yet been realized, I couldn't go that far yet to say half. Right now it's probably more viable to say it's around 1/5th or 1/4 potentially, which is still no small slice of the pie by any means, considering the black demographic is only 1/7th of the overall USA pop. But we know IR is popular not just with the minority demo consumer but also among white consumers.
IMO Lex and Allison like many other porn vets don't harbor the same suspicions of racism they may have held earlier because they learned that the practices exist mostly for business reasons, not because of any racial bigotry or hate. Some of that certainly still exists as motivating reasons, but for the most part they just understand it's business and it makes more sense to them now. With almost zero exception, people are in that biz to make a buck. It could also be argued that they aren't as critical as they used to be or initially felt against the discrimination because as it turns out, it puts higher value in the IR dynamic. So why should we assume that if something is valued more that it must be considered sub-standard? I have no doubt whatsoever that Lex has been compensated for his work several times better than the average male porn star and been rewarded higher than possibly any other male talent in the last 15 years, per performance. It's hard to complain about this, so it's not a big surprise he's not rocking the boat. As for why can we tolerate or find it acceptable for the 1st time extra charge for IR, I just chalk it up to novelty. It's not as if the industry is telling the black male talent that HE has to take a pay cut for a chick's first IR. I don't see this as hurting the black talent's earnings or value. On the surface charging more for that 1st IR seems unfair, but the fact is the business justifies it because the market dictates this, and that's because of consumers. It's consumers who value the 1st time IR exclusive debuts. Just look at the enormous success of Blacked.com. They probably pay a small fortune for all those exclusives, but that could never be viable if consumers weren't rewarding the practice. But ask the performers who Blacked employs if they feel they are being under-appreciated. Flash Brown likes them enough that he signed a contract with them. I think they are actually being valued MORE than average. But is anyone out there asking why it's not discriminatory against white male talent, since white male talent aren't getting offered contracts to work with black women? I think black guys on average could be earning more than the average white guys in the biz, mostly due to supply. If I am a producer, and my casting director tells me one average white guy we tried to hire has developed a big ego and demands more than we are offering, then I'm going to tell ol white boy he can go kick rocks. It's plenty more white boys out there as good looking and equipped as he is who can easily replace him for less pay than he wants. No scarcity of willing white males who want to plow some chicks. However, if it's the same scenario with a black male talent, it would not be that easy. Yeah, there's a replacement out there somewhere, but not as many. I could tell him to go kick rocks too, but it would be trickier. IMO I suspect this may have happened between Prince Yashua and Jules Jordan last year when they had a famously amusing falling out. But as we can now see, Prince is back in Jordan's good graces, which tells me Jules had to recognize Prince's value. (Although I'm not saying all of Prince's demands were met either, and maybe Prince was unreasonably asking for the sky for all we know). Would Jules be willing to compromise after falling out with a typical white male talent? Probably not. Sometimes I find these behind the scenes intrigue and drama fascinating. It would probably make for a great TV show.
I think the problem here is demand. The truth is simply that compared with white women, there's not as much demand for black women. The consumers tend to appreciate females of a shared race. Most white guys prefer white women. Most black guys prefer black women. But when it comes to luxury expenses, white guys have more change to spare, and therefore it is their tastes which are going to dictate the lion's share of what producers deliver. I'm not saying that there are no longer any black consumers, but the fact is as a consumer class, they simply don't have as much change to throw at porn. It isn't overt hateful racism, it's just economics. I totally understand why a guy who isn't fortunate enough to make enough in his paycheck to afford luxury entertainment may be more inclined to stick with tube sites compared to a guy who is overpaid in his sinecure and has money to burn. It was a one two punch that altered the buying power in the demographics of porn consumers: 1) the recession in late 08 which affected blacks the hardest, and 2) the boom in tube sites. We saw this in the fall in production of big booty and ethnic porn. Studios didn't just decide they don't like black consumers anymore. Black consumers whose income took a hit just couldn't justify purchasing as much porn anymore. And it's certainly not like black females suddenly became less attractive. Just as many black and white dudes desire black women today as they did in 2007. I'd like to see more black females too, along with Latinas and Asian women. But the ethnic genres as a whole took a hit and haven't fully recovered since then. Not just with black porn, but we used to have a lot more Asian and Latina content out there as well. Hopefully for everyone's sake the economy recovers fully and actually improves, but even if it does, we probably won't ever see as much ethnic porn besides IR, which is still going to be dominated by black male with white female. I'm hoping we get some more black male with latinas or Asian females soon though.
TBH I think her big titties are keeping her more in demand by vanilla brands, or those which cater more to vanilla fans. I don't think she has as much booty as breasts, so, maybe if it was the other way around we'd see her in more IR stuff. I don't know if it's because of the stereotypical delineation between white and black consumers as preferring tits versus booties, respectively. OR if big titties are just being hogged by the vanilla boys. lol With KLK and Tori though, we know they personally both have bias in favor of, if not total preference for, black men. Tori is married to MimeFreak and KLK was in a relationship with a black dude too, although I think they broke up. So they were probably actively urging their agents to book them for IR more, whenever possible, whereas with Allison she probably is just taking whatever offers as they come. Also I don't like to be rude, but KLK and Tori are, or were, top tier talent and when you're at the top, you can probably be more selective. Just like Ava Addams. She has been available for IR but only on her own site, meaning she's dictating terms which most other females couldn't do, even if they had sites. Ava's is just that much more popular because she's top tier as well, or top tier MILF anyway. I might actually find it more bothersome that Ava won't do IR outside of her site than I would if she was just holding out, but in all fairness, it's her business. She's just hogging IR to her own site! lol
Yeah, as I alluded to earlier, let's just call it the "novelty factor." I think the truth is that this higher-charge for 1st time IR, in the vast majority of cases, is nothing to do with any racial bias the performers have. It's just because of business, and the business is currently such that if you are going to do a job, and one person is going to pay you more for it than someone else will, you will demand the higher pay. These females aren't arbitrarily deciding they don't like black men, so they demand higher pay. They are only demanding the higher charge because companies are willing to pay it. And the reason companies are willing to pay that is because consumers want it. We can't blame the performers or the companies. It's consumer demand which accounts for 99% of this. If consumers didn't want it that much, if it wasn't that desirable, then 1st time IR would have no special appeal, which means it wouldn't be cost effective, which means companies would not be willing to pay more for it, which means females couldn't expect a higher pay. Women really do have a ton more power than people think. Especially when it comes to modeling / porn. I heard recently that the top female models in the world earn 10 times what the top male models make.
No no no no. You're looking at it backwards. Another point which I haven't even got to is, you can't say that these females are only doing IR because of the extra 50% or whatever, suggesting they would never do it otherwise. The companies aren't paying extra to convince these girls that IR is ok. They are paying extra because the company wants to have rights to that exclusive. If they don't pay extra to land that 1st time IR, then someone else will. Women aren't demanding to be paid more to "endure" the "humiliation" of having sex with a black man. If that was the case, then they would always demand extra pay for every IR scene they do. No, this is just about 1st time exclusive novelty. And that's all. The fact is it is the consumers who create this demand. Consumers are rewarding and therefore incentivizing this practice. It would be hypocritical of me or so many other IR fans to harshly judge them for doing this practice when it's that exclusive novelty appeal which gets all of our attention. We can't act like something is special, but then turn our nose up and condemn the industry for accordingly treating it like it is special. That's just a little bit too hypocritical. If you really want to see this abolished, then people have to stop caring about IR in general. The sooner demand for IR goes away, then so does this practice of bonus pay for exclusives. Can anyone out there really blame someone for demanding higher pay if someone else is willing to provide it? I don't think anyone out there in their right mind would do the same job for less pay knowing someone else would pay them more for that very same job. So please, let's try and be a little more understanding. I don't like the suggestion that a female performer must consider IR sex an indignity or debasement just because she's willing to accept the greater incentive that others are willing to provide. IMO if a chick is really racist, then there's probably no plausible price at all she would accept to do IR, and to go one further, I honestly don't believe she should be made to do it. Not even if there was some sort of regulation that was created prohibiting her from being selective. I just think it's wrong to impose that, even though I find that racial selectivity to be the worse wrong. I don't think it's really all that bad if a woman has a racial preference and does what she can to stick with that when it comes to sex. I don't believe that is the same as racism, wherein people make value judgments of character and moral judgments are formed. Sometimes it's OK to let people have a preference in what kind of sex turns them on. It's similar to free speech. I respect the principle even knowing that it will protect speech which I abhor. Free speech = free sex. I respect the principle that allows for their superficial selectivity when it comes to sex, even though I think they are really fuckin lame to be so inhibited. If a white woman is not attracted to black guys or is even turned off by them, that doesn't make her a racist, just the same as if a black woman is not attracted to white guys or is even turned off by them (and believe me, that's the case with many black women) doesn't make her racist either. They can still respect and admire such men without being sexually attracted to them, and what's more important anyway? Edited by - Melvyn on 7/30/2015 4:13:26 AM
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Interracial4Life Deactivated User
329 Posts 3/15
Posted - Jul 30 2015 : 7:16AM
I'm black and I like big boobs and booty myself, there some black men are into girls with big boobs so that is not true. All thing aren't true you knowLA Direct have a history of there performers not doing IR, but both of those girls didn't care because they just are into black men, and in there scenes they enjoy them.I think she is going to limit herself to an IR fans base by shooting it on her website which some won't paid for it. Plus she isn't going to get money from those scenes because it will be on a tube site for free. She is hurt herself just to do one IR scene a years. I think it best for Ava not to do no more IR scenes if you are going to limit that fan base. I think all black men should put Ava on her no list, some girls just don't want to have an IR fan base for not doing IR but they still get bash because they are called racist. Does the industry care for that fan base anyway.
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Interracial4Life Deactivated User
329 Posts 3/15
Posted - Jul 30 2015 : 7:26AM
I disagree on that one, it's true that there are more white men who watch IR then black men but there are some black men who do watch IR. Here is a question to ask, why black men don't buy or watch porn?
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - Jul 30 2015 : 10:48AM
Yet according to Allison, if pornstars want to "make a buck" above an average b/g on IR scenes in general, rather than just on first IR and first IR anal, what they're doing is racist and longer just business. As I've been saying to whatsatelephonebill, that view doesn't make much sense to me. Some porn vets have criticized the IR system as racist, most notably Lisa Ann. Earlier in the thread Krissy Lynn's tweets that called out the system as racist were discussed. Also on this thread, Nikki Benz wrote: "I would never charge more for an IR scene vs regular B/G scene. That's just wrong!" Perhaps the question is whether the racism of a practice is solely a question of intent. Is the segregation of black men in the industry automatically not racist because the people behind the practice don't intend for it to be so?Yet Lex said explicitly in an interview that he doesn't have as much money available to him as he would if he weren't black. That's not an issue that's unique for- him compared to other black men in the industry. I discussed this with Draxxx on pages 5 and 6 of the thread. Edited by - misspornUSA on 7/30/2015 11:15:08 AM
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research1 Deactivated User
156 Posts 7/15
Posted - Jul 30 2015 : 3:25PM
I'm surprised no one has mentioned that it's the same 4 or 5 black guys making multiple accounts across the internet to harass White stars into doing more IR scenes and increasingly, to harass Black or Biracial women out of doing IR scenes with non-Black men. Hell, one of the guys posting here in support of BM/WF IR porn has a tag line that says "no white men" under his name! AgentRaven77 and Franklin are just two of the guys. Both banned from multiple forums.
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research1 Deactivated User
156 Posts 7/15
Posted - Jul 30 2015 : 3:38PM
[mod edit: post about real identity removed. Don't do that.] Edited by - killbillvol69 on 7/30/2015 11:11:22 PM
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research1 Deactivated User
156 Posts 7/15
Posted - Jul 30 2015 : 3:45PM
Interracial4Life [mod edit: other user names removed] This guy has accounts on IRTUBE.NET forum (a site where black men who live interracial porn with Black men come to talk) Had an account on Brazzers but got banned. Had an account on Freeones but got banned. It looks like he has at least one account here. It took me about 2 minutes to cross match him. The guy is everywhere. He must work from home or perhaps he is disabled and collecting disability. No body could post that often if they had work to do. Edited by - killbillvol69 on 7/30/2015 11:11:56 PM
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - Jul 30 2015 : 4:38PM
^I'm going to go ahead and label that info OT.
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research1 Deactivated User
156 Posts 7/15
Posted - Jul 30 2015 : 4:41PM
It seemed on topic to me. But if you insist, OP.
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fredgee Deactivated User
350 Posts 12/13
Posted - Jul 30 2015 : 5:57PM
Black people don't have the extra money and the church still has influence in the Black community porn is not accepted as much. IR can be as much as 1/2 of the industry but the question is even if IR is 1/4 and wm/bf is the least selling genre what does that say about the market and industry.
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Interracial4Life Deactivated User
329 Posts 3/15
Posted - Jul 30 2015 : 6:09PM
[mod edit: comment removed. See the ADT forum etiquette - "Adult DVD Talk is a Friendly Community. Treat fellow posters as neighbors. Please be respectful of each other and each other's threads. If what someone has posted angers you, wait until you calm down before you respond or simply don't respond."] Edited by - killbillvol69 on 7/30/2015 11:12:40 PM
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - Jul 30 2015 : 6:18PM
^I'd like you to consider deleting that comment for the sake of the thread (and likely your forum membership) and perhaps restricting your beef with research1 to Twitter or elsewhere.
No need for a union and even if they tried to form one it wouldn't work. I'm pretty sure the top black male performers get more per scene than the average black male performer to begin with. So many of you try to equate and compare porn rates and practices with that of an average 9 to 5 job and it doesn't work because it's a totally different thing. No one is holding back anyone's rates. It's not like porn performers have to wait to get a raise. If the top black male performers decided tomorrow they want to all charge 2 thousand per scene they could. All that would happen is they'd price themselves out of work. If the studio/director doesn't want to (or can't) pay a performer's rates there's a line of other guys who'll gladly take the work.
^ Yup. The idea of them raising their rates together sounds good, but it ignores the reality of the fact that as soon as they do that, other performers will be willing to step in and take their place. There might be a few companies that still hire them, but most will just turn to that cheaper male talent. Honestly, the same thing happens with the top end white male performers that do increase their rates (i.e. Manuel, James, Erik and the couple other guys in that stratosphere), but there's still enough demand for those guys that the high end companies (i.e. Jules, HardX/EroticaX, etc.) will still pay that rate. The smart thing to do when you realize your value and that your scenes are worth that rate, and this is what most of them have done, white or black, is to start owning and selling the scenes yourself and make the money off them directly instead of letting some other company do so. Manuel has his own lines with Jules Jordan and Evil Angel. James started his website and has his own movies that he sells through Girlfriends Films (and formerly Evil Angel). Lexington Steele has Mercenary Pictures, Sean Michaels sells through Evil Angel as well, Prince Yashua has his own production company (though it hasn't taken off at this point), and Mandingo was attempting to do this with West Coast, I believe. While most of them aren't exclusive to their companies, pretty much all of them shoot more for their companies/lines than for other people (with the possible exception of Prince). In the porn world, that seems to be the best way to take advantage of the demand for your scenes, not simply increasing your scene rate. Edited by - whatsatelephonebill on 7/30/2015 9:20:55 PM
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fredgee Deactivated User
350 Posts 12/13
Posted - Jul 30 2015 : 10:37PM
It is a ten billion dollar American industry, top Black actors accepting 2000 per scene is like Lebron accepting 2000 per game... Eventually someone will come to the conclusion if racism is a issue then it is every man for himself...the loyalty, submission, conditioning, to a old oppressive way of doing business will fade.
^^ I hope you don't actually think porn is a ten billion dollar industry. Even if we were to count the money that tube sites make on advertising, I seriously doubt that the porn industry as a whole makes even a quarter of that.
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Curtom Deactivated User
293 Posts 8/14
Posted - Jul 31 2015 : 7:38AM
Jayden Lee doesn't do black guys on film: http://www.dogfartbehindthescenes.com/tour/video.php?id=4417
If it is a ten billion dollar industry that's based on how much porn generates not how much the industry makes. I just watched a video where Nina Elle said she wanted Lex for her IR movie but the director said he was too expensive but he gave in to her and hired him. The reality is that smaller studios simply can't afford to hire some pornstars because they don't have the budget for it. A few big studios might be able to afford to pay higher rates but most can't and if the top black performers raise their rates they'll get a lot less work because they will have priced themselves out of reach for most companies. It's been said countless times here already...Most of what's being talked about here isn't a race issue but a business issue. I get it. The fans don't have to care about the business aspect so they can choose to ignore the parts they don't like but that doesn't make those business aspects disappear. It's like the recent news about the women's soccer team that had it's female paid considerably less than the male team members. People were up in arms about equality and saying it's horrible that women get paid less than men and how unfair it all is. But the reality that most news outlets never bothered to mention is that the female soccer team generates less than a third of the male team. If they aren't making the money how can they be paid the money? The male team makes more becuase they have a much bigger audience and generates many millions more so there's much more money being made to pay it's players. The women's team doesn't make nearly as much and their pay reflects that. But many people don't care about that and only want to make it a men vs women pay scale as if all things were equal. The same applies to porn and it's rates and performers individual value. Porn isn't a a government job were everyone does the same job and have to be paid and treated equally.
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Mass Facialties Deactivated User
"Facialized Vol. 7" 2021 AVN Awards Winner: Best Oral Movie 9308 Posts 9/13
Posted - Jul 31 2015 : 9:18AM
Is anyone else befuddled by the avatar quote of Interracial4Life? "No White Guys Allow" Huh? EDIT: LOL, within minutes of posting that, he removed it. Edited by - Mass Facialties on 7/31/2015 9:54:05 AM
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Mass Facialties Deactivated User
"Facialized Vol. 7" 2021 AVN Awards Winner: Best Oral Movie 9308 Posts 9/13
Posted - Jul 31 2015 : 10:18AM
By the way, the original subject of this thread, Carter Cruise, appears to be "moving on" from porn. She abruptly announced that she's only available for G/G now. I'm thinkin' she's now lookin' to pursue career aspirations outside of porn. If that's the case, well, I got nothin' but gratitude and best wishes for her.
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Interracial4Life Deactivated User
329 Posts 3/15
Posted - Jul 31 2015 : 11:35AM
^ I removed it from because it's too wieldWell it look like it but she have done everything so this Blacked.com showcase was her 1sy and only IR before she stop doing B/G. Better get the movie now
It's not wrong to charge what someone is willing to pay. As long as companies find it beneficial for them to pay more for a 1st time IR, then I just can't blame performers for expecting that. It's up for them to negotiate. And it seems pretty clear a lot of companies out there do find it beneficial for them. So if that's the case, why shouldn't a performer capitalize on it? It's all about knowing the value a product has. It's not about companies bending to the will and prejudices of performers. In the end, the companies are the ones who will profit the most off of these scenes. So if the situation for them is it is worth paying more for IR, then I really can't blame performers for demanding that. Imagine if you were selling something and one person would give you Z$ or someone else would give you Zx150%, why wouldn't you take the latter? And once you realize what they are willing to pay, you could ask around if any other potential buyers would up that. It's just like Ebay. As for Lex's finances, he had his own company for a while. Maybe it didn't succeed as well as he had hoped, but the fact he could launch one and it lasted for a few years is more than most performers can say. I highly doubt he's not making as much as the average white performer. There's very few white guys out there in the biz whose products sell as well as his, and even they aren't headlining the way Lex is. I think James Deen is one of the most popular, but I don't see movies with his name in the title that are constantly top sellers on the charts. Lex has got to be one of the richest, or if not richest, then he's still near the top in terms of commanding compensation. If he's not the richest male performer currently in the biz, it must be on account of debts he incurred from his own foray into launching a studio. I think to launch a studio you just need more directors helping provide more content. I'm not aware Lex had any others directing for him. Maybe Marco Banderas?
I agree they must already be getting compensated better than the average performers, and obviously there is a limit to how much a company can justify paying a performer and still be cost effective. These guys can't just demand the sky. HOWEVER, all I am saying is if the top 20 black male talent formed an alliance and all agreed to hold out, that would definitely be trouble for studios. Think about that irony. All this time we've been debating about if it's ethical for female talent to hold out on doing IR to get higher pay, what if the top black male talent held out? You say there's a line of other guys who'll gladly take the work, but honestly if there was, they would already be getting the work because they would cost less. Why pay a premium for Rico Strong or Charlie Mac or Flash Brown if there was a line of dudes who would take rookie fees to replace them? Because there isn't exactly a line like that. Companies hire these guys because they are well equipped and proven performers who can deliver. But trust me, if there were readily available replacements who were as big as these guys and could consistently deliver, we'd be seeing more of them. Studios are constantly looking for new talent, because consumers like new, granted moreso with females than guys, but still. I see complaints all the time about the same ol male performers. I personally don't have any complaints, I just recognize others do. But the industry hasn't found any replacements for Mandingo or Lex or Shane yet. If they were out there, I'm sure agencies would be all over them. Anyway, if I was in the biz, I'd definitely be arranging some pow-wows with my colleagues about making a union. If you think the risk is pricing themselves out of work, then this union could make their own studio. It's what Jules did. It's what Michael Adriano did. But I highly doubt such a union would happen, egos and all. Too much clashing.
Seriously, who is going to replace Lex at Evil Angel? Even past his prime, he has enormous value and his movies consistently are top sellers. There is no replacement out there for him. Who is going to replace Mandingo? His movies aren't even that good anymore, but he still breaks into the top 10 with each of his releases. There are absolutely no replacements for these guys. If they existed, we would see more of them. A LOT more. Trust, if there was a replacement for Mandingo, we would know about them. Who in their right mind would not hire suitable replacements for them if they were out there? Don't get me wrong, if you're talking about somewhere in America there's cats swinging bats that could dethrone these top names in the biz, I believe you. There's probably thousands out there. But none of them are stepping forward. None. Not yet anyway. At best there's a couple amateur dudes out there who could replace Rico or Charlie Macc, MAYBE. But still they would have to want to. But if they did then they would. Instead they are probably going to stick with amateur stuff, maybe not even fuck any chicks besides ones they personally know, making couples vids for Clips4Sale or doing Chaturbate stuff. So yeah, hypothetically, if they wanted to step into the pro biz and replace some dudes, they could. But they must not want to cuz it aint happening. There is no line of replacements.
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Mass Facialties Deactivated User
"Facialized Vol. 7" 2021 AVN Awards Winner: Best Oral Movie 9308 Posts 9/13
Posted - Jul 31 2015 : 1:30PM
^ In regards to the lack of "new" male talent in the biz (and how the same male performers have been around for over a decade), I think favoritism amongst porn studios, directors and girls has a lot to do with it. I don't think it's simply a matter of the business not being able to find "qualified" talent out there, I'd say that having a lot of friends in the business has a lot to do with why these guys stick around so long and the industry, as a whole, doesn't really make much of an effort to try to "replace" them.
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - Jul 31 2015 : 2:56PM
Briefly OT, but doesn't a switch to g/g usually signify a change in relationship status?
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fredgee Deactivated User
350 Posts 12/13
Posted - Jul 31 2015 : 7:23PM
My point has also been this should be about business not race...if this is about business why do white males get more work when IR is the top selling and wm/bf is the least. This may not be a 10 billion industry anymore but it is still big and monopolized. Top Black males still work for someone, use companies to distribute through, that is going to change when more people notice how blatant racism is in this industry. There is no way Jezabel, Jade, Chanell, Misty, and several other Black women should not be working more if this was strictly business they have more support than most white males.
Forbidden Love (Love Her Films) - review by Captain Jack
Posted - Jul 28 2015 : 6:12PM
