Reviewers Recommend Lesbian Trainer 4 (Sweetheart Video) - review by Captain Jack Director: Mike Quasar Starring: Serene Siren, Desiree Dulce, Blake Blossom, Kate Dalia, Gal Ritchie, Addison Vodka, Cami Strella, Taylor Wild. Read review
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - Apr 25 2017 : 3:24PM
^Yeah. I think Jules denied on this thread that he paid Jenna as much as she claimed, but I don't know if he's ever addressed speculation about Amy Reid or other specific pornstars.
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - Apr 26 2017 : 9:59AM
^Significant, but lower than what she could have gotten.
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Eco195 Deactivated User
126 Posts 2/12
Posted - Apr 26 2017 : 10:38AM
Well I recall Olivia Austin saying she was offered $4000 for her first. So if she was offered that much and Jules is saying they're paid much more than $2k-$4k, then Nicole might have gotten $6000, $8000, or maybe higher.That it's a one time financial inducement makes it an even easier choice for these girls to make. Assuming of course the girls aren't getting 2x, 3x, or 4x their usual b/g fee every time they shoot for Blacked. And on the racism issue, it's not a binary situation it's more of a sliding scale. It's not a matter of either a girl is a racially open minded and inclusive person or she's a white supremacist. It's more of there being the following possibilities: someone can be extremely racist, someone can be moderately racist, someone can be kinda racist, or someone isn't racist at all. So let's say a girl is kinda or moderately racist and she would normally turn up her nose at $1000 to work with a Black male talent. But if you take the same girl and put $4000 in front of her or $5000 or $6000 and her month has been slow or she has rent that needs to be paid or a car payment that needs to be taken care of. She'll probably do the scene. And since she knows it's a one time thing that makes it easier for her to do.
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Stall Deactivated User
83 Posts 3/17
Posted - Apr 26 2017 : 8:58PM
I know Riley Reid posted on here so let invite her to his thread, and as ask her about her blog she wrote about her 1st IR scenes which she was paid $9,000 for. Since most of these girls do post on here let see what they feel on this topic
^ Well Riley's standard rate must have been 5,000 because I am quite sure she said she got 4k for her IR debut with Mandingo. She didn't get 9k on top just for IR exclusivity. I guess that sounds about right since she is worth every penny, an amazing performer and many regard her scenes with Mandingo as classics. They are very good. Her IR debut in Mandingo Massacre 6 was so good she starred in the follow up, #7. Usually people complain about rematches, especially so soon, but nobody was complaining about this one. I think at this point in the conversation it would really help put things in perspective if we had greater details on what female's standard B/G rates are in the first place. Was exclusivity for Riley Reid's 1st IR worth nearly doubling her standard rate? We can't really know without the sales data, but Jules is no fool. Maybe not every deal pays off, but it must consistently work more often than not or why would producers/directors continue to pay for it? I wonder if anyone knows what the top tier females make per B/G scene? 5-10 grand? Nobody commands a higher fee to do B/G do they? There must be a ceiling where it is simply no longer cost effective to pay a pornstar. It would be different if we were talking about non-porn star, such as when Vivid(?) offered some outlandish price for Kim Kardashian's sex tape. But pornstars have to have peaks.
How much do you guys think Blacked generates per month in membership fees? When I was a member, I remember seeing their scenes were getting hundreds of comments, which is incredible given that only about 1% of paying members tend to give feedback. I never understood why so few people give comments. I feel like voicing my view is one of the best reasons to subscribe. For me it's pretty much essential. When I sub to JulesJordan I make sure to drop comments on scenes. Same with Blacked. But does anyone know what the membership size is at for Blacked? I have to think it is over 10,000 easily, right? Maybe 20,000? So that means they rake in about 300,000 grand per month. 6 scenes a month means they budget is around 50,000 per scene. I know there's other expenses like server and advertising and billing company, and performer contracts, but I'm just speaking roughly.
Im sorry but 9k to shoot with Mandingo sounds obscene and ridiculous on top of being offensive. Did Mandingo get 6500-7500 to shoot with Riley? I sure hope so. His series are the attraction not the women. With regards to those select few black male performers who get showcases they should command just as much as their white female counterparts based on scarcity. If Riley Reid didn't shoot with Mandingo, Jules could've found someone cheaper who would've turned in just as good a performance. There's nothing to suggest putting her in Mandingo Massacre moved more units. Paying 9K for a bg scene is fleecing. There is no data to suggest that overpaying these white actresses like Riley Reid. Carter Cruise for their IR debuts correlates to more units sold as compared with a comparable replacement level actress.
Melvynn who the hell is paying any of these girls 20K for an IR scene? That's so crazy dude. Just think about how that sounds without thinking of it in the warped contact of IR situation in Porn. 10K -20K to simply shoot with another race. There is no way those wages get the return on investment that Lansky and Jules Jordan want. i hope they do comparisons. They should have a limit or take it or leave it rate for their IR scenes. If a girl really needs that much for an IR scene, she really doesn't want to do it. Screw her and find someone else.
First of all, here is the blog post where Riley mentions that she recieved 4K for her first IR scene, as opposed to her normal scene rate at the time of 1200. If you're going to call her out, at least get the numbers right.Second of all, there's absolutely no way that Blacked spends 50K for each scene they shoot. They might make that much per scene, but that doesn't mean they spend it all on the company. Even if every single shoot they did was some performers first interracial scene, I highly doubt they'd be spending that much. $10-20K per scene is possible, and I can see a highly requested debut like Jynx or Nicole getting closer to 30K or a bit higher, but that's just not a realistic number for the average.
^I believe in the post Jenna Jameson and Tera Patrick era, the top earners are favored in the male demographic. Even Jules has said that certain scenes dont get shot because guys are demanding higher rates for those scenes In the least misogynistic light: girls can be more or less interchangeable whereas the males dependability cannot be as easily replaced. There is a huge difference between random stunt cocks off Reality Kings or Industry Invaders and the Manuel's, Mandingo's, Lex's, and Mick's out there. The black male talent are charging more because of the small talent pool, knowing that a scene flopping with bad male talent is a sunk cost thats gonna hurt somebody's pockets other than theirs(think back to Nikki Benz's JJV project where she shot a 6 scene basically for free because she hated one of the other scenes she shot)
Yes , I just meant that when somebody says "she was paid a shitload for her first IR" I always point out she was paid for an entire movie not just a scene and the amount they are talking about was the sum of her wages for many scenes, so even if she was paid a shitload of money (if true) that was still a shitload less than what she could have gotten shooting her scenes one by one with the higher bidder. she did her first IR her first IR Anal Her first IR DP Her first IR submission and yet she didn't speculate over them , did all of those in one single movie thus losing the opportunity to get higher wages regulating the issues plus she got even paid less per scene than her standard rates for those kind of scene. and yet she's taken as an example of those "long tome dodgers" who wanted to exploit IR to get a bigger pay day. as strange as it seems to many, it was quite the opposite she got a "smaller pay-day" and willingly did so
Let's not forget that her first IR was Mandingo if I recall well and she was still relatively unexperienced and could not know what to expect from such a hugely endowed man , over the years she did three more scenes with him though
I'm not saying they actually spend that much. I'm saying based on a modest estimation of their membership, what the potential budget could be if they were investing the maximum based on revenue. Obviously it doesn't mean they are necessarily investing all of it into production. It just helps knowing what kind of potential budgets they could afford, especially when it comes to putting this "controversial" issue into perspective. I think the numbers put the issue to bed.
Where did I say they were spending that much? The only mention of 20,000 in my post was not dollars, but potential membership size. It may even be a lot more than that for all we know. I would doubt they are spending north of 10 grand per scene on female talent though. But they are definitely capable of spending the most given their brand's premium quality.
Did Mandingo make that much? Honestly, maybe he did. IDK. All we know is that he had a deal with Jules Jordan for about 18 months, in which time he and Jules made 10 flicks. My guess is it was a 10 flick or 2 year deal, which ever came first. To your "nothing to suggest" assertion. That is really dubious. When a movie has "Riley's 1st IR" on the cover, that is certainly going to be a selling point. "fleecing" - I am curious to know how you are qualified to appraise the worth of these components that go into moving units. Do you think you know more than Jules Jordan? Nobody is infallible or omniscient with a perfect record of every single minute business decision. Nobody has a crystal ball. Risk is inherent in all business deals. There is always something being wagered by producers. But I would wager Jules Jordan is among the last persons to double guess on such matters pertaining to an industry in which he has consistently dominated. And just for my 2 cents, I personally rank Riley higher than Carter. They're both good, but I mean Riley's performances are something else. I was more impressed by either one of Riley's two gonzo scenes with Mandingo for Jules Jordan than the whole of Carter Cruise's 5 scene feature. But then, I'm simply more excited by gonzo. I think they hold up better.
Well even some contract girls like Tasha Reign doesn't get paid more for IR scenes for Elegant [Tweet is no longer available] How much does Asa Akira make at Wicked because we know she is paid more because of her contract but she did some IR scenes for then too. I know companies like Blacked.com and Arch paid more for the six month IR contract when the regular company. I watch that Hot Girls Wanted on Netflix the other night and they did mention that girls can get a big rate for IR, but like Tasha said it not the girls it mostly the agents who do this. I also hear that the agents get half of her 1st IR paid, btw is there one agency that doesn't allow there girls to charges more money.
^^ Agents usually take a set percentage of any scene they book, no matter if it's a first or not. I haven't really heard about agents taking a higher percentage of negotiated "firsts".
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Stall Deactivated User
83 Posts 3/17
Posted - May 5 2017 : 10:27PM
[Tweet is no longer available] She got a point and I wonder who was she taking about, btw Jessa Rhodes 1st IR was release today and how much did Jules paid her, I think I say between $4,000 or $,6000
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - May 5 2017 : 11:12PM
^Is it possible that the performer in question complained because she is a racist? Sure. It's also possible that her desire for more money had nothing to do with any personal racism on her part. I don't know either way. Do you?
I would think simple math should tell you you can make $4-6000 ten times over by doing ir sooner. what's the point in waiting years for a $6000 bonus(or bribe)? i would expect it to be more than that how long some girls wait. but really we have no idea and there's no definitive answer.
Really? Jules himself said on this very thread he would consider $ 4.000 for a first IR a crazy amount he wouldn't pay. Is this another amount coming out from nowhere like the totally made up $ 9.000 for Riley Reid? Of course it all depends on the Star's normal rates though
Also the girl you're talking about might have found she was getting paid less than a collegue with her same normal rates and got pissed for that..
The agents have a contract for porn , and for off set activities such as feature dancing or others , but it's set on the contract , if it was like you said then no girl would do IR , why should they? If a non IR scene gets them say $ 1.000 minus $ 200,oo for the agent why in the world should she shoot the scene to earn $ 500 instead of $ 800? And if you really think so why you still blame the stars for wanting more so that she can get at least as much as a regular scene? for the second part there is , although I would say he doesn't "allow" Spiegler just doesn't charge more for a IR scene or a regular one , but of course, if the star is offered more or even much more he doesn't refuse the money. Same if the girlg wants more herself for her first, but then the wages get back to normal There's a reasono why the Spiegler gils have been and probably still are the most active on the IR scene , he doesn't charge insane amounts ,the Spiegler Girls aren't the cheaper though
Exactly. Maybe the female in question was being a diva and a racist. Maybe just being a diva. Maybe she wasn't being a diva at all and the telephone game distorted everything in terms of her interests and the tone in which she expressed them. This is a very touchy issue, one in which it should not and must not be denied that there is a legit "devil's advocate" position to hear out. There IS extra money to be made in interracial. This is not even up for debate. It's well established. The question is, just how unfair is it that a performer should want a share of that extra value? Is it unfair at all? How is it not natural to expect to be paid more if you know what you are doing is WORTH more? And how do we know it is worth more? Because producers PAY more. They aren't throwing money away for nothing. That is not how you run a successful business. So already we can see this goes above the performers. They do not determine this value. But does this mean the producers are responsible? How could they be? It's not like they are looking for new ways to throw away money on things that have no value. So how do they determine this value? It comes from sales. It comes from consumers. Not producers and performers. They do not ultimately control value. WE do. WE are responsible. So what is the ultimate solution to this trifling issue, this non-troversy? I guess we all just have to decide to stop valuing IR. Good luck with that, folks!
No it isn't. What is established is that there's extra money to be made in firsts, and that includes interracial. What isn't established is that there's extra money to be made in interracial scenes that aren't firsts.
^ there is I believe you yourself put here some charts about what movies where the top selling at some sites and they were mostly IR , hence they make more money just for that , it is IR. So why the added profit all should be reserved to the producers? after all they are earning more after IR why shouldn't they share a little bit of such money with those who made it possible? Make no mistakes, with very few exceptions it's the girl the one boosting the sales not the man
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - May 7 2017 : 4:28PM
^We'd have to establish that IR scenes that are not firsts can on average be reasonably expected to be more profitable than other b/g scenes. Or at least that would have to be the case for the IR scenes of this or that specific pornstar.
If it's me, the only time I remember having referenced charts at all on this board was when I was trying to point out that firsts sell better than non-firsts by using one specific sites statistics as to Blacked's releases, showing that the movies that had firsts labeled on the cover were doing better than the movies that didn't. I've never tried to compare Blacked's releases to releases at large, because without knowing what the actual numbers are that would be somewhere between difficult and nearly impossible. The best you could do with coming up with a real answer to that question is by comparing releases from the same directors to each other and seeing if their IR movies sell that much better than their non-IR movies (i.e. comparing Blacked to Tushy to Vixen, or comparing HardX to DarkX, or Jules' interracial movies to his non-interracial movies).
^ well those top selling movies weren't all firsts , those of Dark X mostly aren't same for JJV , same for those from Dogfart or all those teen , milf sepson/mother themed movies , basically only those from Blacked were , as a matter of fact , as per his own admission here, JJ pays more the actress and the actor both In any case , my point is : there's not a single reason for a star asking more for a scene it depends from many factors , including the value of the final product. To put it simple if the movie is espected to sell well is the actress entitled to ask more and get a share of the the earnings? I believe we agree on the yes If it's a first of whatever thing , thus a once in a lifetime chance to earn more from that, should an actress ask more if more is available? I believe we agree on the yes If everybody else is paid more than their usual rate for a scene , should an actress ask for more too or should she be the only dumb one? I believe, yet again we agree on the yes If a star is asking more for a scene for a movie for a minor company with no expectation to top any chart , that shows no firsts and no anal and comes from the medium or even cheap end of the business with nothing particolar but being a scene with a black man in it , then it's wrong. and to that too I believe we would agree Edited by - LCF on 5/7/2017 5:34:14 PM
^ DarkX sells well, and does the JJV stuff, but, again, Jules in general sells well. Mason in general sells well. The fauxcest movies are sellng well. If you're actually trying to say whether interracial sells more in general there has to be a like-for-like comparison, which no one generally bothers even attempting to do. Edited by - whatsatelephonebill on 5/7/2017 5:30:44 PM
^ I'm saying exactly so If a star asks for more doesn't mean she's just a racist , there's more to it. It could be the case, I'm not in denial, I'm merely stating it's not always true
Look how well IR sells... It's constantly in the top 5 best selling charts. Every time I check AdultDVDEmpire or XRent or whatever charts, there is constantly IR units being moved. And not necessarily "IR 1sts." Most of these IR joints are not IR-1st scenes. IR by itself has extra value. How else could IR 1st??? If IR had no extra value over vanilla, then what the hell value is there in 1st IR? That would be like trying to sell 1st vanilla! LOL Just like anal has extra value. Yes, 1st anal has even more value than non-1st anal, but that doesn't mean anal has the same market value as vaginal. The extra value stacks. 1st anal > anal > vaginal 1st IR > IR > vanilla Now, I'm not saying IR has twice the value of vanilla or anything. I would just contend it has at least a marginal added value. The only thing preventing IR from dominating the sales charts even more than it is is the fact that the industry and only produce so much of it, as there's a comparatively low cap on black talent availability. Nor is this to suggest that vanilla is obsolete. Obviously I'm not saying that. I think the majority of the consumers will take vanilla happily, and of course there are some who prefer vanilla and are repulsed by interracial. Finally I wanted to add that I resent the notion that IR only has extra value in IR-firsts. That suggests once a female performer has done her 1st IR, that there's no substantive additional incentive to pursue further IR scenes - but that's definitely not the case even if you look at a IR-first focused brand like Blacked which has established that its goal prioritizes IR 1sts as their mainstay. If you check the Blacked forum, you will see many of the females that are featured there remain popular and fans demand seeing them return in more scenes. We IR fans don't just care about exploiting females for 1st IR and then throwing them away like they are disposable. We have love for good and sexy performers and celebrate them. We all have our favorites. I'm big fan of Harley Jade. She only started doing IR last year, but I can't even remember what her first IR was anymore. I just know she's done multiple IR scenes and I've liked several of them. Hell just think about Jada Stevens. I still love watching her and she's been doing IR about 10 years. If a chick has it, she has it. One thing I will say is sometimes I think people focus too much on the IR-1st without the female talent really meriting it. These are the typa dudes who thirst at the pretty girl, and they get all worked up about her and build her into something special even though she hasn't proven to be a special performer. I personally don't put half as much stock into IR 1st in and of itself like a lot of other brothas. I think a lot of that is putting the cart before the horse. These dudes track females in vanilla and they count the days she hasn't done IR yet. Lately, most IR-1st scenes I never even heard of the chick before.
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Stall Deactivated User
83 Posts 3/17
Posted - May 9 2017 : 9:04AM
[Tweet is no longer available] MOD: Naming random people amd calling them racist isn't acceptable. Edited by - Flash on 5/9/2017 9:55:24 AM
^^ Do not lose perspective IR is not divided into different categories such as non IR is , for example there's not an IR teen category nor an IR anal category nor an IR MILF and so on all that is not IR is divided into categories and markets the sum of them all would surpass by far the sum of IR issues expecially if you consider web scenes only. A fan of IR anal may find an IR movie with anal but it's not marketed as anal it is marketed as IR , you may find a teen a Milf and an Asian in the same IR movie whereas non IR movies are very often specialized into genres , body types or sexual acts. An IR fan who likes Milf might be forced to buy a movie with two teen in it and the opposite is also true thus an IR movie benefits of both customers If you go to the Blacked Thread you will see a whole lot of blabbing pro and against certain body types, certain tits, in favor or against tattoos , fat ass lovers , those who dislike some performers and those who like them all of them though have to get what they can there's no sufficient IR content to satisfy every need Edited by - LCF on 5/9/2017 9:08:29 AM
First b/g (or first vanilla as you call it) does have added value, especially if you've been around doing g/g or some other work beforehand. Even without the women having been around, first (and usually only) vanilla is how sites like GirlsDoPorn and ExploitedCollegeGirls make their money, for the most part. Vivid's Brand New Faces series was all about getting first b/g scenes from performers. We have a thread on the first page of this forum asking about performers first b/g scenes. And, as I said before, the IR you see at the top of the sales charts is generally from directors/companies that would be/are topping the sales charts with their non-IR releases as well, so the fact that it is there isn't necessarily indicative of it being the determining factor of why it's there. Edited by - whatsatelephonebill on 5/9/2017 6:36:56 PM
lol...as long as they do IR I don't care. It seems like a lot of girls have started IR after being called racist. Chicks seem to fight users on twitter/instagram after being called racist. You can tell it effects these performers and might play a role in them eventually doing IR. I remember adriana chechik really got blasted after her interview on howard stern about not being attracted to black guys. Not to long after she started to do IR to everyones shock. Don't know if the hate she got played a role in doing IR, but I would be crazy to completely dismiss it as having no merit. People in general don't like being called racist, if they are not. Maybe this is another reason some chicks get paid more as well, if they don't enjoy the work.
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - May 9 2017 : 3:32PM
^It's not my impression that pornstars generally restrict themselves to only shooting content that reflects their offscreen preferences in sexual partners or sex acts, so I'd be surprised if IR was the exception.
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Eco195 Deactivated User
126 Posts 2/12
Posted - May 9 2017 : 8:02PM
Actually performers who are pretty well known and have some sway in the industry get to work with the performers they choose to work with. And they can choose to do scenes that reflect their preferences. But that some are requiring extra pay for these particular types of scenes makes it clear that they really don't want to work with Black performers. As they require a financial inducement to do it. Because if girls tried asking for extra pay because they weren't really "attracted" to the white male talent they're asked to work with they'd get laughed off set.
^ Some performers, after having achieved a certain amount of fame/notoriety/success, raise their rates beyond the industry standard boy/girl rates. Does that mean that they required a financial inducement to continue to shoot boy/girl porn? Things aren't always as simple as you're trying to make them.
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - May 9 2017 : 9:33PM
Yes, some performers limit themselves. I am not concerned with what is done by the few, but by the many. Nothing I've read or heard from anyone in the industry leads me to conclude that it is the norm for performers to only shoot content that reflects their offscreen preferences in sexual partners or sex acts. Of course IR is not the exception. That a performer (or her agent) asks for more money in a situation in which she can get more money can simply mean that she wants to get paid as much as she can for her work. No deeper motive is necessary. Edited by - misspornUSA on 5/9/2017 9:35:06 PM
Lesbian Trainer 4 (Sweetheart Video) - review by Captain Jack
Posted - Apr 25 2017 : 2:12PM
