^ could be, actually it's very likely, she plays the Latino card too , as a Latino could play the first IR claim
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Interracial4Life Deactivated User
329 Posts 3/15
Posted - May 27 2015 : 8:04PM
That is why Interracial sell more then black porn these days, some people don't want to see black on black but I don't know why. Wesley Pipes give an interview why Interracial sell more, he also said that most black companies like WCP shoot more IR then black porn. The companies that shoot IR is with BM/WF because it sell more.
Uh...maybe some of the others who kept silent don't really care or feel strongly enough to comment or were never asked and able to comment in a public forum. And what kind of stance is that? "I refuse to work with women who don't want to work with me"? It's like me saying I refuse to have sex with Jennifer Lopez because she would never date a guy like me. That'll teach her a lesson.Probably not. But I don't see the reason to get too upset about it. It's their choice. Unless those same women are coming to Prince and Rico to borrow money or asking for some sort of help I don't get why they're so worked up about it. It's business. Maybe it's a bad choice on their part but it's their choice to make. Those girls obviously have some sort of plan or reason for their decision. Leave them alone and let them do what they feel is best for them.I'm sure there are some black pornstars all worked up about this but I don't think the ones that say it's not something that they spend too much time worrying about it say that because they are afraid of some sort of backlash. Crazy as it may sound perhaps it's not something they spend their time dwelling on it and being anry about it. Lex seems completely sincere about it not being something he trips about the multiple times I've seen him asked about it. What would be the point? A white girl doesn't want to have sex with a balck guy...what's he suppose to do try to get her trown out of porn? Show up to her shoots carrying a picket sign? kidnap her and force her to have sex with a black man? Play the Prince card and declare he won't have sex with the white women who don't want to have sex with him? An incredible waste of time to dwell on those girls who won't have sex with him when there's money to be made with the girls that do. Remember years ago when Lex put Alexis Texas in one of his IR movies even though she wouldn't do IR? I think that speaks volumes where Lex's head is at. When people attacked him for it he straight out said it was a business decision.Is there an IR porn drought happening I'm not aware of? This whole "Waiting to shoot IR for a bigger payday is far from new. It's been going on for years and yet IR porn somehow got made. Now that you're aware of it doesn't change anything. Black men have always worked less than white men. Why is it such a crisis now? It was and will be business as usual.
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - May 27 2015 : 10:06PM
You've misunderstood, so I've added emphasis to what I wrote. Prince and Rico were speaking about how they would react if these black women were to eventually drop their policy of not shooting with black men. When it comes to black men remaining silent, you write as if they only have two options: 1. Not give a damn. 2. Be an obsessive activist on the issue. In fact, there are many options in between. We'll have to agree to disagree on why these men remain silent, or only speak politely, about their racial segregation.While pornstars getting paid more for first IR is nothing new, it seems to me that the expectation by pornstars that they will get paid more if they save IR for last or put it off until the second year is something more recent. Traditionally pornstars who have put off IR did so because they were advised that if they shot with black men too early they would be typecast. That's quite a bit different than "Waiting to Shoot IR for a Bigger Pay Day." I think the financial incentive is more seductive, and therefore more dangerous, than the "typecasting" concern, which a lot of smart pornstars simply brushed off. In light of that, I expect more and more of the best performers entering the industry to do just what Kevin Moore described. In response to your question of "Why is it such a crisis now?" my answer is that I'm less satisfied with the current crop of non-Black male performers than I've ever been before. Most of my favorite non-black male performers have either retired or become caricatures of their old selves. Furthermore, while I've consistently maintained that the issue is neither primarily nor solely a moral matter for me, I also haven't denied the fact that the moral dimension does play a role in my thinking on this matter. Edited by - misspornUSA on 5/27/2015 10:45:02 PM Edited by - misspornUSA on 5/27/2015 10:59:00 PM Edited by - misspornUSA on 5/27/2015 11:45:51 PM
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Interracial4Life Deactivated User
329 Posts 3/15
Posted - May 27 2015 : 10:18PM
^^ It sound like you support this, the porn industry is racist like it or not, and why can't black men speak up on racism but afraid to get blacklist by directors or agency. You never here of Justin Long because he is the only black man in porn who stop doing IR because of it racism. Now what if all black men in porn stop doing IR scenes for a year. How will it impact the industry, will companies like WCP, Blacked.com, and other be hurt. Edited by - Interracial4Life on 5/27/2015 10:20:11 PM
I just got my copy of EVIL ANGEL's "LEX'S TATTOOED VIXENS" yesterday. On the cover it doesn't say "First IR" but rather "F1RST TIME WITH LEX" even though for at least one of the girls this actually seems to be her first IR. The whole emphasis on "firsts" of anything seems to about to reach the point of being silly. But this seems like a response to Kevin getting complaints from fans. At first the goal seemed to be to just put out great Lex scenes but in the forums fans complained about seeing Lex with the same girls over and over even if they worked with Lex at different studios. It seems this whole Kevin (and probably others) are now going overboard to make sure fans see they're getting new girls or girls Lex hasn't been with. Not a big deal I suppose I don't know if it a good idea to try and cater so heavily to the super hardcore fans who seem super hard to satisfy.
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - May 28 2015 : 1:32PM
^Personally I don't have a problem with Lex working with a woman multiple times if they have above average chemistry. I'd actually rather see him bring back Teanna Trump, someone with whom he has proven chemistry (their Black Panthers scene was HOT), than anyone I can think of who he hasn't yet shot with. That isn't to say that I want him to give up shooting "firsts." I enjoyed Tattooed Vixens and was especially glad to see Anna Bell Peaks, a favorite newcomer of mine, shooting her first IR (no "Waiting to Shoot IR for a Bigger Pay Day" bs for her!), but I don't want Lex overlooking pornstars who he really enjoyed working with for the sake of shooting newbies. Unless the "fan" complaints reflect a drop in sales Lex and Kevin should just ignore them. As I wrote earlier, these complaints have been fairly consistent for years. Some of these people will never be satisfied until everyone Lex shoots with is a one off, which would be ridiculous. To the extent that we're seeing a similar trend of fan whining with Blacked, I'd like to see that ignored too. There are plenty of newbies I'd like Blacked to shoot, but I also want to see August Ames back, and Jillian Janson (EDIT: which, happily, has happened), and several other pornstars whom they've shot before. Edited by - misspornUSA on 5/28/2015 1:33:24 PM
Anna Bell Peaks was mostly the reason I bought the DVD. The rest of the girls were good looking too but I was blown away by Anna...who I've never seen before but absolutely love her look and attitude. She's my new fav. I hope she's around for awhile.I often wonder how close fan reaction matches actual sales. Usually it's really only a few vocal people complaining but I still wonder if they are a good respresentation of paying fans. I see that at least some directors actually take fan suggestions when it comes to casting new or different girls.
I'm a fan of Prince and Rico and they're free to think or do whatever but here's my take on this.... Isn't this another just another form of what's being called "racism" here? Do they feel the same way about white, Asians, or Latinas who choose to wait before doing a scene with a black man? If not why do they only have this policy with black women? Why take that stance on black women making that career choice? Why care one way or the other? Why take it personally? From the black female performer perspective....I'm sure they're not losing much sleep over those two. If and when they decide to do a black on black movie if those two refuse to do a scene with them there are other black guys who don't have that hang up. With Prince, yeah he occasionally has his own line of movies but it seems to mostly if not always be all IR. So it's not like they lost that venue for work. That's why you don't hear others jumping on this bandwagon...it's a waste of time. Nonsene on nonsense.Nope. I'm sure there are some more worked up about it than others. I'm sure if others were asked about it they'd have varying degrees of caring. I just think the smarter ones don't weigh themeslves down with it and move on with their careers. I really don't think it's a matter of being afraid to speak. It's not like te porn industry is some sort of organized union. Some people might not like hearing it and not hire them anymore, some will say they agree, some won't care one way or the other. It's probably like that already for most of those guys.While pornstars getting paid more for first IR is nothing new, it seems to me that the expectation by pornstars that they will get paid more if they save IR for last or put it off until the second year is something more recent. Traditionally pornstars who have put off IR did so because they were advised that if they shot with black men too early they would be typecast. That's quite a bit different than "Waiting to Shoot IR for a Bigger Pay Day." I think the financial incentive is more seductive, and therefore more dangerous, than the "typecasting" concern, which a lot of smart pornstars simply brushed off. In light of that, I expect more and more of the best performers entering the industry to do just what Kevin Moore described.
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I disagree with your thinking here.... If what Kevin says is true and more studios are doing more IR (I don't see that as being true, but he should know) then IR has become even more "mainstream" and common in porn so it's becoming less and less "taboo" or as a fetish type thing. That means it's become a more important genre and less of something to avoid. So holding off on it will make less and less sense from a financial and career standpoint. So now if it's a matter of coming up with more money or a showcase then we won't see those long wait times. A new girl might just do IR 6 months in if she can have a showcase or big payday instead of waiting years when she feels her career is in theright place or needs a boost. Directors can come up with the money or showcase if the girl is worthy at any point. Before it was the waiting game that might have taken years. For goodness sakes...if the directors have the money and want "first" bragging rights go ahead and pay the girls for it. If they don't want to pay more for a girl,or don't have it, find another girl. Options exist.
LOL. We could've been having pretty close to this exact disccussion 5 years ago. Like I said, paying a girl more to do an IR scene isn't anything new. I'm sure years ago when this became common fans were annoyed to hear it and directors thought they were opening up a can of worms that would ruin things for them. Before that people were upset about the girls who refused to do IR at all and were afraid that would become the norm. Fastforward to today and everything seems to just fine for the most part. Sales are down overall but there seems to be plenty of IR and girls are doing IR sooner and sooner in their career. There will always be something to get people worked but it's usually not as big a deal as they tend to make it.
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - May 29 2015 : 1:20PM
^Five years ago I would have been less likely to be concerned. The non-Black male talent pool and non-IR porn in general were more to my liking than they are now, and I'd be a lot less likely to look at a pornstar and think to myself "When will she finally get around to shooting a scene that I can actually watch?"
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Interracial4Life Deactivated User
329 Posts 3/15
Posted - May 29 2015 : 9:17PM
I post this before on this thread, Now Like I said before what if all black men in porn stopping doing IR scenes and boycott for a years? What type of impact will it have on the industry and will it hurt companies like Blacked, WCP, and Dogfarts.
I'm not an actor, but I play one on TV 911 Posts 4/06
Posted - May 29 2015 : 9:33PM
What if an asteroid hit the San Fernando Valley tomorrow? I'm not really worried about either since the likelihood of either is very, very remote. But to answer your question, is there a labor union involved? (No) Then new talent will be hired, new porn will be made, life will go on. Same as if all the white male talent, or white female talent, or black female talent or biracial-TS-midget talent walked out. There would likely be a slowdown in content release schedule while new talent is brought in, but not much would change other than some new faces to be seen. The overall quality of new scenes might also suffer a bit while the new talent pool is being sorted out, but if you're trying to suggest it would be some earth-shattering revolution, it almost certainly wouldn't. Not exactly going to be a revolution that's going to get a lot of positive mainstream press coverage either... "Male African American pornstars boycotting because only 90% of hot female pornstar talent interested in working with them." ...not exactly a sympathetic cause.
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Interracial4Life Deactivated User
329 Posts 3/15
Posted - May 29 2015 : 10:08PM
It's hard to replace black male talent, or any male talent. The industry isn't going to get a black male performer off the street. Like you said how will the girls who do IR feel about this, will they join in.
Edited by - Interracial4Life on 5/29/2015 10:11:28 PM
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fredgee Deactivated User
350 Posts 12/13
Posted - May 29 2015 : 10:39PM
Top Black males won't walk away but they could become more selective, demand higher pay. The problem for them is the big studios have money and distribution for now anyway that gives them leverage. If someone came up with a new way to finance movies it would change everything. Basically thinking outside the box is what's needed.
I'm not an actor, but I play one on TV 911 Posts 4/06
Posted - May 30 2015 : 12:09AM
The playing field is set by supply and demand. As long as there is sufficient demand for a particular performer, the industry will find a way to monetize that, no matter how objectionable you, me or anyone else finds it.
Is being on more no lists than their counterparts actually costing the top black male talent a significant amount of money, because despite being on more no lists many get tons of work and are in pretty high demand.
There's only about 3 or maybe 4 black guys tops in the biz that have enough clout and followings that could even consider holding out for bigger money. And even with those guys they'll simply end up pricing themselves out of a lot of work. Male performers just don't have the same kind of clout to get away with as much as women do because it's the women that are usually the main attraction for fans and the guys usually just aren't as important to the mix. Some guys are in some situations when they are the star of a series but even then it's all about which girls they're working with.
^I agree but I'll a step further and say that no black male talent really has the clout to really turning down work. You gotta remember that from the jump half the girls in the industry won't work with you and some of the biggest studios won't hire you, so the options are limited from the start.
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fredgee Deactivated User
350 Posts 12/13
Posted - May 30 2015 : 2:05PM
My point was the playing field is not level for Black actors or interracial either really. The playing field has to be leveled and that means thinking outside the box. This conversation is interesting but if the industry does not listen to the market it is falling on deaf ears. The rules of supply and demand, economics don't apply. This sells if the current industry is unwilling to give the people what they want they will be replaced one way or the other.
I'm not an actor, but I play one on TV 911 Posts 4/06
Posted - May 30 2015 : 4:04PM
^ That sells, which is why it's getting produced in the first place. The rules of supply and demand ABSOLUTELY apply here just like in any other market. Until you can provide some actual proof (something you've been short of in pretty much all your arguments thus far) I'm not accepting your premise that there is some sort of shortage of IR and/or all black porn.
Exactly, if IR porn is such a hot commodity, and "Waiting to Shoot IR for Bigger Pay Day" is so financially successfully why can't black male talent make a few extra bucks for these scenes? If the top 10-15 guys say,"Hey pay me more as well or get someone else". Its a sound strategy. Not boycotting, or trying to get performers who don't want to do IR to for whatever reason acquiesce, those things are pointless. However if a particular white female performer gets a 30% increase (or whatever it maybe, IDK) for her first IR scene. Shouldn't the guy she performs with, since this particular scene is now an "event", get a pay increase as well. Given that their potential for earning is less than their white counterparts on average, it makes even more sense. That is the ONLY leverage available to them in the industry.
I'm not an actor, but I play one on TV 911 Posts 4/06
Posted - May 30 2015 : 4:30PM
^ Are you, the consumer, willing to pay more for what you just described, or is this just something that the studios should do because you think it would be swell?
^I would think so. If it costs more for them to make, it makes sense for them to offset that cost by passing it on to us. Just one more reason companies paying girls more for IR sucks.
I think Lex, Mandingo, Prince, and Shane are the only ones who come near to having the clout to say pay me more or get someone else and even with them they'd be taking a big risk that they'd probably lose. But it would depend on how much and for which studio. "Half the girls in the industry"? During all these discussions of white performers who haven't do IR I always think people skew high. Personally, when I check on girls to see if they've done IR about 75% do it or have done it. I'd love it if someone found a "Top 100 pornstar" list and see what percentage of girls have done IR.
I'd pay more if it were a showcase type movie like Niki Benz' IR movie for JULES JORDAN. Or if it were a movie spotlighting all "firsts". As long as it's a worthy event I don't have a problem paying more. If it's one girl in one scene maybe not but the prices for movies aren't always the same anyway. If it's for a site I'm not sure how they'd handle that.
I'm not an actor, but I play one on TV 911 Posts 4/06
Posted - May 30 2015 : 8:47PM
If/when the studios pay the female talent more for a "First IR" Yes, that cost get's passed on to you. See: "There is no such thing as a free lunch." Those specific titles may or may not fetch a premium, but the studious aren't just eating the additional cost. They can't. It's not a sustainable business model. As far as comparing paying the male talent and the female talent it is apples and oranges in this scenario. The whole notion of getting paid a premium for "First IR" is the act is specific to the female performer. Now if Lex wants to raise his rates for stuff marketed as "First Time With Lex"then that makes sense, but in the generic scenario that started the thread... no it doesn't. Generally speaking, people are paying to see the female performers. The male talent is necessary, but more of a commodity than the female talent. McDonald's needs hamburger buns to stay in business but nobody gives a shit about the buns unless there is something horrifically wrong with them. Unfortunately in most cases the same is true of male talent in porn. Most people don't give a shit unless they're distractingly bad. So why pay someone extra who is basically just a faceless cock to most consumers, when you could just as easily replace him with another faceless cock that will do the job just as well without charging a premium? So again, I ask you... are you, the consumer, willing to pay more for what you just described, or is this just something that the studios should do because you think it would be swell? Regardless of whether you agree with what I've said above or not... even if you think everything I've said was wrong... would you be willing to pay more so the male talent could get paid more?
^Yes I would. And I disagree that the male talent is just a faceless cock or else there would be hundreds of black male talent in the industry alone. The fact is, there are only about 10-15 black guys that get the majority of the work. About 5 of them maybe get their own titles. There's obviously a reason for that. If I decide to buy an "IR First", I am conceding I'm willing to pay a premium price for the product, whether I know if the female performer was paid more or not. I don't want to pay more just because I think its "swell". I'm willing to pay more if the male talent decides in an industry where his potential to earn is less simply because he isnt the right race, decides to take advantage of one of the few leverages that maybe available to him. There's obviously a demand for IR or else a company like Dogfart wouldnt have lasted as long as it has. The fact that Blacked was recently started is further proof. Unless the "Waiting to Shoot IR for a Bigger Pay Day" is such a widespread practice, that suggests the majority of non-black female performers do it, I doubt highly throwing a few extra (what, a couple of hundred?) is going to be so taxing of their budgets that a slight price increase can't cover. Or else they shouldn't pay more for IR. I mean a faceless cock is a faceless cock right?
I'm not an actor, but I play one on TV 911 Posts 4/06
Posted - May 30 2015 : 9:45PM
^ Faceless cock doesn't mean that anyone could do it. I qualified my statement already by saying that most people generally don't care they're distractingly bad, which does eliminate a significant portion of the populace. That said, you can read the threads here and see countless people champing at the bit for a particular starlet to shoot an interracial scene. Only a small fraction actually cares who the male talent is, and most of those seem less concerned with who it is and more concerned about isn't in the scene. (See: they're distractingly bad) Point being, most people don't care who the male talent is. (outside of their own "this guy sucks" list) If a particular performer can command a higher rate I'm all for it regardless of race, gender, or any other factors. I just haven't seen any evidence that supports the idea the the market would support black men getting paid more for shooting a "First IR" scene. But don't look at it as one film, look at the big picture. Yeah, you can probably offset a couple hundred bucks for one movie, and one star, but those few hundred bucks rapidly turn into thousands, tens of thousands and more when you start looking at the quantity of porn produced. And once you open the door to paying performers a "popularity" bonus, the whole payscale gets thrown out the window (for better or worse) and you significantly prune the talent pool. I get the "let's pay these guys more" notion. I just don't think you've thought about the consequences of actually doing it.
I don't think so. Maybe Mandingo because his serious is still one of the best selling in the history of JJV but none of those other guys could and the same goes for most white male performers. I guess that is a good side effect of IR, the only male talent in the industry that could is a black guy.On freeones 49 out of the top 100 are girls I wouldn't consider "IR friendly". Keep in mind that I counted girls like Ava Addams, Noelle Easton, Amy Reid, Holly Halston, Aletta Ocean, Lexi Belle and Dani Daniels because even though they have done IR before they either stopped doing, did it once and never did it again or will only shoot it under special conditions. So ya, for the most part half the industry won't work with black performers.
I sort of agree. It depends on who the girl is I guess. I wasn't interested in the Nikki Benz thing at all but I don't think I would have had a problem with paying a bit more for Dani Daniels showcase for Blacked or for Romi Rain's for JJV.
Like I said before, only if the women holding out to market their first IR scene as some special event, are a significant number, only then would it be financially straining. And that's only if the company producing the scene decides not to charge the consumers more. So a couple of hundred bucks turns into a thousand at 5 performers, $4000 at 20 performers-right? Unless there are like 50 or more performers a year popular enough to wait out doing IR for a bigger paycheck. $1000-$4000 a year isnt that bad. Considering this cost is shared between different companies (lets say 7-10 or more)-bc there can only be ONE first time IR scene per performer, I would say even $8-10,000 a year wouldnt be that bad. Edited by - Octodickie on 5/31/2015 12:03:27 AM Edited by - Octodickie on 5/31/2015 12:04:32 AM
I'm not an actor, but I play one on TV 911 Posts 4/06
Posted - May 31 2015 : 1:54AM
^ You're quick to give other people's money away. I doubt you'd feel so giving if it was your money we're talking about. What I'm describing is a fair market. What you're describing is affirmative action. What I'm, describing is a sustainable model that is fair for everyone. What you're describing is a model that isn't sustainable because it's just looking to get "10-15 guys" paid more by a market that doesn't necessarily see their service as worth more.
^affirmative action? lol that came out of nowhere, and a really peculiar thing to say I already explained why black male performers can negotiate receiving more pay and be justified in doing so. If a first time IR scene is going to depicted as a special event then there is a demand for it. Therefore the female performers are going to want to work with the most well known and reliable male performers, to create the BEST product. And that's WHERE their leverage comes in. There's nothing more fair than trying to maximize their earning potential based on what they bring to the table. Black males in the adult industry are in a unique position. More often than not they're at a disadvantage (most certainly not fair), however in this situation they're not. Its really not that hard to follow nor understand. You'll somehow are trying to twist this into them asking for a handout and something they don't deserve. I wonder why. Edited by - Octodickie on 5/31/2015 3:56:49 AM Edited by - Octodickie on 5/31/2015 3:58:56 AM
I'm not an actor, but I play one on TV 911 Posts 4/06
Posted - May 31 2015 : 4:16AM
^ No you haven't. You've explained why you think that producers should pay them more, not how/why/if consumers are willing to do so. That's why it is affirmative action. You're suggesting that people get paid more because of the color of their skin, not because of of their value to the production. "Black guys should get paid more because you can't shoot IR without black guys" is absolutelywanting to pay someone based on the color of their skin. (and this is the racial can of worms you open up when you fetishize skin color) Female talent can demand more because people want to see her. Read the other threads on here. People are clamoring to see various performers shoot their first IR scene. But the focus is the girl not the guy. Very few people are clamoring to see "First with Lex" or "First with Prince" That's why one performer can command a premium over the other. Like I said before, male talent is basically a commodity in porn. No matter how necessary it may be, most people aren't watching the porn for the male talent. They're watching it for the female talent. You can't make a "First IR" movie without a camera guy either. So should the camera guy get paid more too because he's really important to the whole thing? Hop over on "Star Crossed" and see how many threads over there are dedicated to male talent compared to female, and then come back here and tell me again how much demand their is for male talent. It's great that you've volunteered to pay a bit more for your IR porn so that Lex can get a bigger cut, but I'm not convinced that you are in the majority. And without a significant number of consumers willing to pay more to get top notch male talent, your suggestion simply isn't sustainable. And I NEVER suggested that the talent was asking for a handout. I've very plainly stated that you're trying to do it on their behalf. And as I've very plainly stated numerous times, if the consumer is willing to pay more to have them in a film then they ABSOLUTELY deserve to make more. That's the sticking point... if the consumer is willing to pay more. If they aren't YOU are suggesting they get a handout (at the expense of the studio) and if they are, then we're in agreement. Edited by - murdock on 5/31/2015 4:23:24 AM
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IWatchUSmash Deactivated User
ooh shit she bouncing!! 638 Posts 1/14
Posted - May 31 2015 : 4:21AM
You're WRONG regarding Lex actually as Black Panthers 4 is due out next month according to the evil angels site. And btw the problem isn't about the black females doing "too much IR", the problem is some of them are totally turning their noses up at black porn and acting like some of their white counter parts by not working with black men at all. It's a very sad attitude to have considering black males have been stigmatised within the industry since it's inception with white, latin, asian and every other race of females refusing to work with them so to have black women do it too is simply shameful. Can anyone name an active, mainstream black male in the game who has NOT worked with a black female? Rico? he has Prince? he has Lex? he has Dingo? he has Flash brown? he has Jason brown? he has Isiah Washington? he has Moe Johnson? he has Kevin Stallion? he has Rob Piper? he has Nat Turner? he has Ice Cold? he has This list is endless...yet right now though one could name a whole bunch of black/mixed females who haven't worked with black men and there lies the difference. And sadly the list seems to be growing by the month..every new black chick seems to make her debut in IR porn now.
^^Most consumers aren't willing to pay more PERIOD if they don't have to, that includes paying the white female performers more for their "First IR". So that is an irrelevant point. However when faced with a choice of a product not being available AT ALL or paying more, most will choose to pay more. That's common sense. 2nd Affirmative Action was/is a government program intent on correcting unfair hiring practices based on race that were in place for decades in the U.S. How does that apply here, I have no idea. You keep trying to assert that the male performers are little more than essentially flesh and blood moving dildos, which really isnt the case at all. The quality of the product is based on capabilities and talent of the guy performing. Every male performer is hardly interchangeable with the next. Some are commodities and others are HOT commodities. Their different personalities, penis sizes, body types, athleticism etc make them unique determine the quality of the scene and their chemistry with their co-performers. This is the reason guys like John Holmes, Ron Jeremy, Randy West, Rocco, Lex, Prince, Flash, James Deen etc past and present stand out from the rest. A great male performer adds production value. Why are their names listed on box covers and on websites along with the female performers if NO ONE CARES? lol Doesnt make sense I'm sure they negotiate their fee for performing based on their prior performances, reputation and response from female talent and reliability. How do companies decide whom to give a "series" to? Do they enter and pull their names out of a hat? Of course not. I wonder if the female performers agree that the guys are so interchangeable. Yes the demand for "first IRs" by the consumer comes at a price. If they would rather the male performer be Flash rather than Wesley Pipes (just an example) than Flash would be smart to take advantage of that. Therefore the consumer/and or the company will have to compensate for that. That's business, hardly a new concept to the industry. You then accuse me of wanting the black male performers to make more simply because of their race. You have no basis for making such a claim.
I'm not an actor, but I play one on TV 911 Posts 4/06
Posted - May 31 2015 : 5:33AM
^Considering the demand for pretty much any given female performer by the IR enthusiasts to perform IR, I'd argue that a significant portion of people would pay more for that event. Again, read the forums here and look at the demand for it. But again we're talking about "First IR" of a given female performer. The event here is in relation to the female performer, not the male performer. The male is a commodity in this scenario. And no, affirmative action isn't just a government program it is a concept that centers around the policy of favoring members of a discriminated group. Both the government program and your proposal both fall under that definition. Seriously, can you read? I'm starting to doubt that you can. I've qualified my statements several times now. The male talent is a commodity that can be replaced with other commodity talent. And no, people don't care who it is for the most part AS LONG AS THE PERFORMER ISN'T DISTRACTINGLY BAD. The focus is, has been, and likely always will be, on the female talent. Yes there are a few tiers of talent, but that doesn't make a given performer any less replaceable. If Prince want's x (the going rate for an IR scene) and Prince want's 1.5x who do you think the director is going to choose? Most consumers aren't going to care who it is AS LONG AS THEY AREN'T DISTRACTINGLY BAD!!!!!!!!! But yes, withing that context, they are replaceable man-dildos for the majority of fans. Look at the IR threads, and look at the starlet threads. People aren't clamoring for scenes with particular male performers. They are looking for their favorite starlet to get fucked by a big, hard, black cock. (again, this is also one of the results of fetishisizng skin color) If all of the male talent (or at least the top tier guys) form a de facto labor union and decide they're going to demand more money for "First IR" scenes, one of three things happens, either the studios pay it, or they seek out other talent that will do it for the "normal" rate. (and yes, despite the fact there are a dozen or so A-list guys in the business right now, you're naive to think that of the billions on the planet, those 12 dudes are the only ones willing and capable to perform on that level.) The third option is they just don't make the movie. The latter two options immediately validate my claims regarding the market not supporting paying them more. If they pay the higher rates and make the movie, then sales will either support the higher rates or they won't but if they don't the studios aren't going to continue paying the performers more for shits and giggles. Rates will drop back to normal if the sales don't match. But all that is moot if the top tier talent doesn't collude to set their rates higher. If they act independently and some still work for the lower rates, they'll be getting all of that work.
^I have already stated my case on how the male performer is not just a commodity. I dont feel the need to state it again, so I won't. Affirmative Action is of course a "concept", but its a policy instituted by the government. Can't even see how that's debatable, so I won't waste any more time on that either. This concept means nothing if its not enforced by an institution of authority. No such thing exists over the Adult Film Industry. You questioned me with a condescending "Can I read...." Well of course, once you inserted AA into the discussion, I predicted you would drag the conversation down to lower depths with a hint of arrogance. No surprise there, I saw it coming a mile away. Black male performers exploring the possibility of enhancing their compensation is a no brainer. Why wouldn't they? Whether the companies pay it or not depends on their skill on how they proceed on going about it. Yes, it depends on them (the top talent) doing this as a collective. You really aren't saying anything I havent stated in other posts going back several days, other than your belief it won't happen. Your belief on the matter is not a fact of course, just your opinion. Reiterating it over and over again won't change anything. It almost feels as if you have a personal stake in them NOT being compensated more. I believe its more than just monetarily also. I don't feel the need to elaborate on that, or deal with the compulsory denial that is sure to come after.
I'm not an actor, but I play one on TV 911 Posts 4/06
Posted - May 31 2015 : 7:44AM
Yes, you've stated your case. And I've refuted it. So yeah... no need for you to state it again.You brought up the government bullshit, not me. I was referencing the concept so if you can't differentiate between the two, that's not my problem, its yours.I was arrogant long before I brought up affirmative action. Let's not act like that was some revelation. If it took you that long to notice, then I've vastly overestimated you. Nice job though, sharing with everyone (after the fact) how you just *knew* that was going to happen. Your post facto clairvoyance is greatly appreciated.Well since you've got such a great grasp on predicting what's already happened, and since it's such a no-brainer as you put it, then why haven't they? If it's as easy and simple as you claim, then why are we even debating it?And there lies the problem... and that's why it almost certainly won't happen.Well yeah. I already stated that if the market supports it that I'm all for it, and that if that happens, we're in agreement. The disagreement we have is whether or not they have a right to more money if the market doesn't support it and seem to be of the opinion they do, and I'm of the opinion they don't.Well that's true of your opinions too. The difference is I've backed up most of my opinions with supporting facts. You? Not so much.I'm all for paying everybody what they're worth, and ditching the labels in the first place. I think it's fucking ridiculous that in 2015 the industry is still labeling performers as black performers and white performers. As liberal and forward thinking as the porn industry typically is they're about a century behind the times when it comes to race. But I guess that's more a problem with their willingness to serve up what the public wants. Since the public clearly wants to keep reminding everyone that Lex & Co are black performers, and not just excellent performers, we're going to be stuck arguing how much black performers should be making. So remember that, next time you want hop up on your soapbox and act all high and mighty about race.
I named Lex because he's a fav of JULES JORDAN, his series at EVIL ANGEL, his old MERCENARY line, and the various series he's done for different companies over the years. Mandingo seems to be WCP's golden guy these days because in seems that most of their recent DVD output showcases him. I'm surprised to hear that Mandingo has the best selling JJV title. I would've thought it would be Lex. Jules seems to prefer Lex and Lex seems to be the more dynamic performer. I'm not that big a fan of Shane but Shane always seems to be working for studios starring in his own line. I named Prince because he's popular but hasn't been able to maintain a line of movies like Lex, Mandingo, and Shane. I think Lex, Mandingo, and Shane's popularity comes primary from their size. That's not to say they aren't good performers but them being big and black is their main selling point. They have that going for them in that it's something not so easily replacable. So they would have a bit more bargaining power than some of the other black performers.On freeones 49 out of the top 100 are girls I wouldn't consider "IR friendly". Keep in mind that I counted girls like Ava Addams, Noelle Easton, Amy Reid, Holly Halston, Aletta Ocean, Lexi Belle and Dani Daniels because even though they have done IR before they either stopped doing, did it once and never did it again or will only shoot it under special conditions. So ya, for the most part half the industry won't work with black performers.
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Thanks. But in my mind the girls you named should count as having done IR because they actually did it. Surprised to see Aletta Ocean on your list because I've seen what I consider a lot of IR from her. So if we go by my personal criteria of any girl who's done IR counts the perecentage will probably be closer to the number I thought.
It wasn't when I posted that days ago and if it was I couldn't find it , unlikely but possible. But the main point is that there's not enough black on black porn out there , would you please just take count how many black girls Lex fucked in the last 10 months? ten? twenty? , How many IR scenes did he shoot? 90? A hundred? The scenes you want aren't there , it doesn't matter that those black performers did IR scenes or Black on black scenes (but as said Shane avoided them for YEARS) all those guys you mentioned shoot 20:1 IR over anything else. The scenes those girls are turning their nose over as you said are just not there how many are those scenes per month? How many actresses are there to shoot? You can't put a barrel full of pornstars into a glass full of scenes, this seems to be point you can't get Edited by - LCF on 5/31/2015 11:29:29 AM
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Interracial4Life Deactivated User
329 Posts 3/15
Posted - May 31 2015 : 12:41PM
Some IR Fans obviously care some way or another about the state of interracial porn, or we wouldn't be here. They complain about who is or isn't doing interracial scenes, and bitch about how little content the big producers like Brazzers and DigitalPlayground produce with us in mind. IR Fans feel betrayed by the porn industry and some not all IR fans consequently feel somewhat justified when they pirate its scenes because they don't want to support girls who don't do IR or companies like DP. BTW I saw these video and another video had me laughing but it true. I think IR fans shouldn't support girls who don't do IR but support the one who for all I say. Edited by - Interracial4Life on 5/31/2015 12:42:34 PM
Tempting Schoolgirls - review by Captain Jack
Posted - May 27 2015 : 4:53PM
if the current industry is unwilling to give the people what they want they will be replaced one way or the other.