So they're really not changing anything in that case then, right? Because I thought that a girl would get a nice payday for their first ir scene then the rates go back to normal b/g scenes afterwards. I'm I wrong?
Fair enough, but it's not like the only two things people are willing to pay for are anal and ir. You know as well as anyone that they're a bunch of different things that girls can do on cam to keep fans interested. My point being that you did more then Just anal to keep relevant.
Skepticism is the beginning of faith 50 Posts 5/15
Posted - Aug 19 2015 : 8:38PM
I really don't care about who charges what, if the companies have the money to pay the girls, let the girls have the money. The owners of these companies are not philanthropist, they are not on a racial equality crusade either. They shoot IR because it makes them money, they only pay the girls more because they think they will get their money back. You IR fans complaining about this, my question is, what do you think is better, a girl that never shoots IR or a girl that charges more for it? As far as this whole IR mess, Bonnie has said that she has done scenes with black women and I do think a straight white woman that licks a black pussy will probably have no issues sucking a black cock at some point. Call me crazy but girls like her, I don't write them off as IR hold outs. I believe she really had planned this and then her situation changed. We all make plans and then life happens. But again she is just one woman, she has not done any scenes with a black man but there are thousands of others who have, and there is absolutely no lack of IR material to watch. I am also disappointed that a woman like Alexis Texas who has also shot with black women is being cast as somewhat of a racist. By this I don't mean a girl has to do something with a black person to prove she is not a racist. Just saying, to me, those girls are not in the same category as those who never do, and I am talking business decisions of course. It' s my personal belief that Alexis just played the waiting game longer than she should have, maybe because she was getting so much attention. It's like the 40 year old guy who wanted to go back to college when he was thirty but waited ten years, he might still wanna go to college but he might be asking himself, is it even worth it at this point? As far as the Carter Cruise situation, my understanding of it is that people were mad because BLACKED gave her a showcase. Many girls have done more extreme stuff before they did IR and they did not have to put up with half the stuff she had to. One thing I am sure of is that, if there is a subsequent BLACKED showcase, it will be with someone who is roughly in the same stage of her career as Dani was when they gave her the showcase.
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - Aug 20 2015 : 12:32AM
Those aren't the only two options, and pornstars getting paid more for their first time with a black man is not the problem. The problem is why they are paid more, and the reason is that a scene with a black man is not regarded as a normal b/g (which, in reality, it is) within the industry's current business model.Pornstars are not interchangeable for me. One pornstar is not the same as any other. Bonnie Rotten is a specific individual pornstar. Yes, there is plenty of IR material to watch, but none to watch in place of an IR scene with Bonnie. That said, I wish Bonnie all the best (being a parent is by far the best thing ever in my life and I hope that it's just as amazing for Bonnie) and am grateful that I have so many scenes of her's to enjoy. I'm not going to address your point on Carter Cruise in any detail since I've already discussed that issue extensively on this thread. I'll only say that her showcase has been quite good so far and leave it at that. I've already said my piece on Alexis Texas as well.
[Link]
Curtom Deactivated User
293 Posts 8/14
Posted - Aug 20 2015 : 3:46AM
Answer this simple question, what is stopping you from performing a black men? Edited by - Curtom on 8/30/2015 4:50:41 PM
I would argue that that isn't the primary reason. The primary reason girls get paid more for their first IR is because producers noticed that a girl's first IR scene sells better than a normal b/g scene. And because it sells better, that created competition between companies to shoot that specific scene. And said competition leads to companies offering more money for the scene than a normal b/g scene. It's not like companies decided to pay more for first IR because they felt like throwing the performers some money just because. Paying more for first IR is something that was decided by the market before it was decided by the industry. Now the trick (and what we're starting to see with companies) is that they've also noticed that scenes that aren't first don't seem to be generating that much more money than a normal boy/girl scene, and that plus the inherent inequality of charging more to shoot with someone based on the color of their skin is why we're seeing more performers and more companies move away from charging/paying more for IR in general. Edit: My point in saying all that was to say that just pointing that it isn't fair that IR isn't treated as boy/girl isn't going to change the fact that there's demand for the scene, and where there's demand and competition (and scarcity, seeing as you can only shoot a "first" scene once) the price is going to go up. To change the fact that girls are getting paid more for first IR you would have to change the economics behind the scene, which would require basically changing the way that fans react to it. Edited by - whatsatelephonebill on 8/20/2015 3:56:45 AM
Right now, the fact that she's pregnant. Outside of that, the fact that she's retired. Before that, she wanted to shoot it for herself and figured she had more time to do it. Shit happens, and continuing to confront her because shit has happened doesn't accomplish anything. Edited by - whatsatelephonebill on 8/20/2015 4:06:03 AM
[Link]
Curtom Deactivated User
293 Posts 8/14
Posted - Aug 20 2015 : 4:12AM
Then how do you explain girls like Alektra Blue, Alexis Texas, Sovereign Syre, Stevie Shae, Brandi Love, Nicole Aniston and many other white pornstars who have done IR g/g scenes but never done b/g IR. There a strong correlation between girls who have done g/g IR scenes in their first 12/18 months and how unlikely it is that they will b/g IR scenes before they quit.
Bonnie is a director now and is no longer performing or so it seems , so she no longer belongs to this topic , either she hires herself thus won't get paid at all or she's not waiting any payday from shooting porn because she doesn't perform anymore. Thus we should drop this topic, furthermore to profile anybody based on unconfirmed or even fabricated assumption without having even met her once is beyond insane in my view
[Link]
research1 Deactivated User
156 Posts 7/15
Posted - Aug 20 2015 : 9:27AM
MOD: You were told to stop posting in this thread or you would be asked to leave the forums. Please leave the forums now. Edited by - flash on 8/20/2015 4:13:15 PM
^I won't post his name, but yeah, he has millions of accounts all across the web. A bulk of the inquries peformers receive about doing scenes w/ blk men are from accounts made by him. The dude is autistic, which I won't make light of, but yeah, can't keep sending ppl death threats . Hopefully for his sake he can take a long break from the computer and do something more productive.
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - Aug 20 2015 : 10:41AM
I introduced her into this thread on page 22 (and quoted her again on page 23), because what she wrote of her experience is actually quite relevant to this thread. I suggest reading those quotes and some of what she subsequently wrote on this thread herself about how the business works.
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - Aug 20 2015 : 10:49AM
If that is true it is very important in that it provides more evidence that watchdogs should NOT be regarded as representative of the fanbase. While Bonnie realizes that plenty of her IR fans love and support her work, many other pornstars who are harassed by watchdogs uncritically write off IR fans collectively as horrible, crazy people.
[Link]
research1 Deactivated User
156 Posts 7/15
Posted - Aug 20 2015 : 11:14AM
MOD: You were told to stop posting in this thread or you would be asked to leave the forums. Please leave the forums now. Edited by - flash on 8/20/2015 4:12:42 PM
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - Aug 20 2015 : 1:58PM
^The examples of "Alektra Blue, Alexis Texas, Sovereign Syre, Stevie Shae, Brandi Love, Nicole Aniston and many other white pornstars who have done IR g/g scenes but never done b/g IR" would all seem to significantly dilute the probability that " a straight white woman that licks a black pussy will probably have no issues sucking a black cock at some point." Edited by - misspornUSA on 8/20/2015 1:58:57 PM
These supremely obnoxious, sanctimonious social justice warriors never cease to annoy me. Porn is a LUXURY commodity, people. It's not the place to leap on the bully pulpit and politicize and proselytize and condemn. If a girl don't wanna do any black dudes, so be it! If a company has business interest in paying a girl extra for doing something which their market analysis shows has extra value, so be it! You don't need a masters in microeconomics to understand this. It's real simple. It's irritating whiners who need to stop pointing fingers and launching personal attacks in their crusade over this business practice. And before you accuse me of dismissing this issue on the assumption that I don't care about IR in the first place, I say all this as a major IR fan. Before you point your finger at the companies and the performers, realize what they are doing is because of us. WE are the reason IR is a genre. WE are the reason companies want to pay extra to land exclusive IR rights. WE, the civilian audience, the consumers. WE dictate this. This practice only exists because WE demand it. It's not performers' fault or companies' fault that they just do what is in their best business interest. How many times do we have to read about performers who say they personally love black guys, and in their private lives have dated or CURRENTLY date a black man, but that they are simply savvy to the way the industry is. It's just a business game. No one can blame them without blaming consumers first. What makes this whole issue a paradox is that the people most likely to bark up the wrong trees here are the ones responsible for the way the business operates. If no one valued IR in the first place, the genre would not exist. The label would be pointless. The extra pay for first time IR would never have become a standard practice. Quit antagonizing these companies and performers, players of a game we created. Bonnie, keep doing what you're doing. If you refuse to pay girls extra to do IR for your movie, okay cool. But it shouldn't matter even if you did, because it's your studios money and they can invest however they feel is justified by the market. If they say, we want to get these specific girls in their first IR, but it will cost more, then so be it. If they feel the consumers will reward that by making it a best seller, then it's just sound business. I want yall who dont get the picture yet to take a look here: http://i.imgur.com/0yDMX9O.jpg That's from a day ago. 7 of the top 10 rentals at Xrent are IR. 8 if you include Angela Loves Threesome (a flick I highly recommend), which features 2 IR scenes. 13 of the top 20. Here's the top sales: http://i.imgur.com/OFgvab0.jpg The way they do it is because it sells, and it sells because we like it. If we didn't like it, then it wouldn't sell. The practice exists because our demand dictates it. We want IR, so the IR label exists. We want to see girls first IR, so companies like Blacked launched to enormous success specifically to cater to this demand. And you can bet they paid a pretty penny for all those exclusives. Is it wrong? No. It's smart. Look how they are being rewarded. In just over 1 year Blacked has amassed as many followers on Twitter as Dogfart has with 15 years head start. Every one of Blacked's DVD's is a best seller. Their internet ranking per Alexa has them ahead of even the mighty JulesJordan who is a distributing partner of theirs. But let these critics tell it, paying extra is wrong and racist. Meanwhile, I would wager dollars to donuts for these critics lashing out, their favorite new site is Blacked. lol Edited by - Melvyn on 8/20/2015 3:20:59 PM Edited by - Melvyn on 8/20/2015 3:24:27 PM Edited by - Melvyn on 8/20/2015 3:25:00 PM
the basic reasoning was if a producer makes say $ 1,000 (symbolic figure of course) out of a regular (as in non fetished) scene and makes $1,500 out of an IR scene with the very same actress , is it fair she gets paid the same? Wouldn't be fairer is she gets a share of the money the producer earns out of her work? What if the scene not only makes him earn more but also shows her in a degrading view ( basically a cock drunk slut, who would fuck anything with a black cock which I believe is the degrading role many starlet don't want to play) What if the scene not only makes the producer earn more but actually a lot more than the usual if the star performs a "first" (anal, Ir , DP , Gang Bang , whatever). Is it still wrong to pay her more? If you only take into consideration the racial part of a porn scene then maybe it's right but if you take into consideration the economics of it, things appear a little bit different. Porn is a business all parts are there to make a profit out of their efforts , it isn't fair to set the revenues from a scene apart from the reasoning. If a producer earns $ 1,000 (aqain no real figure just an example) from a regular scene and earns equally $ 1,000 from an IR scene with the same actress then it would be definitely racist if the girls demands more because the man is black, but if the producer earns more than the starlet has every right on wanting a proportional share of the extra money he gets.
And look who it is at the top of the sales chart. Carter Cruise. That's right, the recent AVN winner for best new female. The one who the vocal minority of ingrates with their pitchforks and torches were berating and chasing off the board. I swear it's just confounding how quick people turn into a prejudicial mob over shit they only just heard about! How entitled must you be to think the world immediately owes you for something you were only made aware of a moment ago? I had never even heard of Cruise before dudes were already attacking her for her deal with Blacked. I wasn't familiar with her til I saw this years AVN awards a few months ago, and by then it was already well established she had this all IR feature by Blacked coming soon. If you ask me, she and the company could not have planned this any more perfectly. The timing was genius. As IR fans we should all be HOPEFUL that more stars and companies go this route, and GRATEFUL when they do. Not this ridiculous flash mob of hate.
Yeah I'm well aware, but as you can see based on the continued harassment and the resulting bans that the admins have had to enact, sometimes it helps to reiterate. If people understood what I outlined in that post, there should be a lot less complaining. People should be appreciating more, and hating less. I also like reminding people how well IR sells [:P)] Edited by - Melvyn on 8/20/2015 3:41:43 PM
I didn't mean that as an absolute, but the discussion was turning towards a locking path , that's why I invited to stay focused on the main subject instead of Bonnie
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - Aug 20 2015 : 3:45PM
^My intention was not to make Bonnie herself the subject of the discussion, but rather what she wrote about how the system works. Unfortunately, a few people chose to troll her instead of staying on topic. Edited by - misspornUSA on 8/20/2015 3:50:59 PM
^ If they meant they won't pay more a starlet who already did a few IR scenes who want more just because they shoot with a black man, than it's right, but still dogfart don't shoot regular IR , they shoot heavily fetished IR , though not always especially in their early productions and of late. But for example it took a lot of time to Lisa Ann to accept to work with them, years. Julia Ann did lots of scene at their beginning . India Summer worked with them very scarcely maybe only once I'm not sure
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - Aug 20 2015 : 4:35PM
^^They shoot roleplaying scenarios, just like Brazzers mostly does (Dirty Masseur, Big Tits At Work, Big Tits In Uniform, Doctor Adventures, Big Tits In Sports, etc.). I'm not sure what it's supposed to mean or why it matters that Lisa Ann or Indiana Summer took so long to shoot for them. The very great Nina Hartley has worked with them multiple times, most recently in May.
Actually you MISSED THE WHOLE POINT! It's not that I couldn't get a HUGE pay day. Its that I did the right thing, and got paid a normal rate. Actually I took my rate down, because I am in every scene for Nikki Benz Jungle Fever, you can imagine the bill to Jules just for my rate. Because it's my showcase, I was ok with lowering my rate, and I wanted to prove a point, that NOT ALL white female pornstars try and get a big pay day for IR. I was trying to make people understand that I wasn't holding out for money. I did it when it was right for me. Stop twisting this shit around. Unbelievable.... Is there even a point me defending myself, when I have idiots on here trying to smother the truth?
^ I'm not one of them and actually I preordered your Jungle Fever the very moment I saw the trailer , it was the right thing to do, you were great in there , especially with Flash , oh and even though it wasn't my usual cup of tea I enjoyed your blindfolded scene too Oh and I actually don't care about your payday , not my businessNone of them shoots their kind of scene , India played a nurse with a well hung patient (Ice Cold) who happened to be black , there's a similar scene with Julia Ann and Prince at Brazzers Doctor Adventures Lisa Ann played a scene in a office , it was sex out of arousal with a guy who happened to be black , she played the very same kind of scene several times in her career with blacks or withes alike. The recent update with Nina Hartley was a parody of the "Hillary" character she's been portraying for a while now , much like Lisa Ann's "Palin" Their latest update with Cherie Deville also portrays a character not specifically fetish related degrading scenes with girls treater like a mere hole to be used for servicing unworthy black men (referred to the thug character , criminals of any race , the scum of any society ) are different . I'm not criticizing , mind you, it's a role and there are many women who actually have that fantasy and men who like to subject women to their pleasure , so I have nothing against it, I'm just putting a picture in , to show how very different IR porn is even in the very same IR network
I don't understand what I did to be responded to with that much hostility. But I do apologize for misinterpreting what you said. Edited by - whatsatelephonebill on 8/20/2015 5:07:33 PM Edited by - whatsatelephonebill on 8/20/2015 5:12:17 PM
^ My two cents your wording implied she wasn't worthy a bigger payday (...if Nikki CAN'T get...) whereas she could very easily but didn't want to , actually she lowered her rates for once because she feared it could be a too costly product to be made and she really wanted to do the movie. I think that's it
^ That was absolutely not my intention. My intention was basically to state that if anyone was worth a big payday, it was her, and the fact that she didn't get one made me re-evaluate how big the paydays actually are.
^^ that's the point , she "didn't get" , she "didn't want to" but she could , easily. She said that even considering her usual rates she feared the movie may result too expensive and Jules would/could reconsider , so she lowered them because she really wanted to shoot the movie. of course if you sum up the amount of 5 scenes it's huge , but there's nothing wrong about it Edited by - LCF on 8/20/2015 5:34:31 PM
^ Which is why I apologized, because I clearly misinterpreted what she said. I was stating what I thought when I wrote the post, which was wrong, but it wasn't supposed to be malicious or intentionally incorrect. Edited by - whatsatelephonebill on 8/20/2015 7:53:35 PM
Skepticism is the beginning of faith 50 Posts 5/15
Posted - Aug 20 2015 : 8:11PM
Citing a few names does not change anything. I could use a few things to prove anything wrong too. Neither you nor I have any empiric data to prove our point, if you wanna crunch the numbers to prove me wrong, feel free. I am definitely not going to try and prove you wrong. The whole sentence that started this conversation began with " I think" and then I used the word probably, all to show I was not stating any facts, I was just giving my opinion, feel free to disagree, I don't mind. Edited by - Solaar pleure on 8/20/2015 8:12:15 PM
[Link]
StarGrek Deactivated User
Under the moonlight. 1763 Posts 10/11
Posted - Aug 21 2015 : 4:58PM
Wow! Things are getting interesting here... This thread is really ... cheesy... Suspense, tension, lots of back alley rumors and of course the critical presence of some nasty hard talk girls like Bonnie and Nikki! Next best thing after Oprah Winfrey show. now beyond fun... I have to give kudos to the author who managed to sustain, feed and support the thread for so long giving the opportunity to many adult insiders to express their opinions. I wanted many times to put my two cents in the thread but when I started writing the post I couldn't finish it because I wanted to add more and more. So instead of a post it would come out a damn book...
I will make an attempt to write a few things... because my hand is itching... [:P)] What makes interracial so attractive to the public is the fact that many viewers generally want to see sexy starlets reaching their limits by doing more and more extreme and "dirty" things. That is why the image of a huge veiny cock stuffing the starlets holes to completion can be very appealing to them. That is why anal and DPs are also popular because they represent the extreme not so ordinary side of sex. For the same reason this intimate mixing of races which in some societies can be a taboo, stimulates the sexual imagination. Furthermore the contrast of skin colors as they entangle sexually together can be great in photographic sense. The dark skinned, muscular guy with the hefty rigid cock represents the masculine element and the woman who is able to accept his manhood in a passionate and a little bit animalistic sexual intercourse becomes immediately a symbol of womanhood. Sometimes though things are not always .. black and white. Not all blacks have big dicks and not all big dicks are rigid. Not all blacks are great lovers and most importantly not all women are fascinated to let oversized poles excavating their sensitive cavities. As for Racism.. It is still thriving in every aspect of our lives in many different forms. There are lots of politics behind the adult cameras. Some are licked in social medias or in sites like this, but most of them don't. Now besides racism and financial tactics there might be personal reasons a certain starlet might exclude I/R copulation of her pornographic repertoire (family, relations etc..). We as viewers are obliged to respect them. They are very pressed already and by trolling them we make very big damage not only to their psychology (some of them they cannot take it any more and decide for early retirement) but to the entire industry.
[Link]
StarGrek Deactivated User
Under the moonlight. 1763 Posts 10/11
Posted - Aug 22 2015 : 5:24PM
But apart from this, the deals which are made every time between producers and adult agents are sometimes harsh. Each side supports his own interest and has many arguments to state for this. Agents might say:Producers might say:
[Link]
StarGrek Deactivated User
Under the moonlight. 1763 Posts 10/11
Posted - Aug 22 2015 : 5:25PM
Now folks you understand that there are many serious arguments each side can state when they deal about changing hardcore levels, so taking this decision it might not be so simple as we think of. As for me, I do not like to complicate things. I personally do not consider I/R such a big deal as long the guys dick do not cause the starlet physical problem. So I find a bit exaggerating all this fuss about it. IMO one of the best male talents that ever performed on screen was Justin Slayer and he was black. But there are also black performers who have many wood issues and perform horribly on screen. For me is about the certain person and not about the certain color. And with all due respect all these firsts are only for creating impressions. For me it is all about overall pornographic quality and not about initiation or about the activity itself. This quality may very well come in the second or in the sixth time a girl does I/R or anal or DP, depending on many factors like directionship, performance, chemistry etc... That's all... Ughhh... I got tired writing... I hope you not get tired reading.
Trophy Wives 2 - review by Captain Jack
Posted - Aug 19 2015 : 6:57PM
