^ In all honestly, most performers are going to go for any mainstream attention they can get, without any care as to what the "audience" for that attention is. If they can be featured in a music video, they'll probably do it, no matter what type of music it is. If they can get a spread in a non-pornographic magazine, they'll go for it. Business is tight enough these days that most of them aren't really in a position to be turning down opportunities because it caters to an audience that they arguably aren't actively courting with their scenes.
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - Jan 12 2016 : 12:37AM
^^Okay, so if a pornstar only shoots g/g, thereby excluding all males, should she cease to promote herself to men? Fact is that men don't only buy b/g, and black men don't only buy IR. If black men do not restrict themselves to purchasing IR, why would pornstars who don't shoot IR restrict themselves to promoting to non-blacks? It's not hypocrisy, it's common sense: Black men already purchase non-IR porn, so as a pornstar who doesn't shoot IR I will make myself known to black men. Sounds perfectly reasonable to me. Edited by - misspornUSA on 1/12/2016 12:37:36 AM
I don't disagree, more often than not I operate from the assumption that they're just taking the work that they can get. But I do think though this idea that they can be immune from criticism because "that's just the way the industry works" is too often a shorthand for saying "I don't think it's an issue therefore I don't wish to discuss it". Also I think performers are often more clever than they let on about it. A specific instance that comes to mind (which I referenced in her thread already) is the way that Samantha Rone consistently uses her Twitter platform to try and drum up excitement from fans who wish to see her do an IR scene, with what appears to be no interest in actually shooting it. I remember one instance where a POV scene surfaced where people assumed the guy she was working with was black and she repeatedly tweeted out that wasn't an IR scene and people shouldn't be calling it such. While at the same time saying those kinds of things (race) don't matter to her. Anyway, I agree with the point you're making. I just think that in many instances performers are more aware of the situation than they let on.
I think that's an unnecessary issue of semantics you're trying to introduce. A woman who shoots only g/g is not creating a situation that adversely impacts male performers because she's in an area that renders the presence of male talent moot. More importantly, you and I both know that's a red herring of an argument given that we're discussing a category of pornography which by its very definition is fraught problems (specifically, IR as a category shouldn't have existed to begin with). Abstaining from IR creates a glaring disparity because a woman who is already engaging in heterosexual intercourse is saying that a specific ethnic categorization of men are off limits for whatever the reason. More to the point, having a person cross over between genders in sexual acts is a larger leap than engaging in the kind of sexual acts they're previously accustomed to (ie "gay for pay"). Also, like I've already stated twice now she's more than free to promote herself wherever she would like. However, if she's going to she should not expect to be free from the criticism that she's going to invariably attract. Edited by - high_flyin5 on 1/12/2016 1:01:15 AM
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - Jan 12 2016 : 1:10AM
^^Race might not matter to her personally but race objectively matters in the industry. Phoenix Marie pointed out in an interview that she doesn't mention race in her scenes. Nonetheless, the marketing of those scenes will be racialized. Stoya slammed the hell out of the whole idea of "IR", yet how did Digital Playground choose to market her scene in Bad Girls 6: "The scintillating Stoya takes it big and black in her first interracial sex scene with thick stud Mr Marcus. Lusty pounding and wild pumping on pale skin from her aggressive dark lover filling her up with loads of his creamy love juice." Angela White has also criticized the "IR" distinction, even suggesting that it is racist, yet at the same time as a businesswoman she can't not capitalize on her IR firsts by not promoting them as such. Again, the personal feelings of the individual pornstar about race are irrelevant to how race is objectively treated by the industry. Now, pornstars tend to want to get the most that they can, both career and money wise, out of "firsts." That's why the race of the guy who Samantha shot with matters. We need to place her concern about how that scene is perceived in a business context if we want to actually understand where she's coming from. Edited by - misspornUSA on 1/12/2016 1:21:22 AM
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - Jan 12 2016 : 1:20AM
You're ignoring my point: Black men don't only buy IR, so there is nothing wrong with a performer who does not shoot IR promoting herself to black men.I never suggested or implied that you've said otherwise.Pornstars are critiqued perpetually and so I doubt that any pornstar is surprised by criticism. However, some critiques are reasonable and others are not, and I believe that the critique you and I are discussing is unreasonable.
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - Jan 12 2016 : 1:27AM
Pormstars who have no interest in shooting with a black man will not consistently use social media to create/expand demand for their "first IR." Could you imagine Jessie Andrews doing that?
Right, I'm not disagreeing with the notion that the industry uses racialized themes and negative stereotypes to sell content. I don't think any rational person could look at some of the titles they push out and make that argument with a straight face. My point is, for performers participating in that industry the one aspect under their control is the specific acts they'll perform on camera. Not shooting scenes with black men (some performers don't list IR on their availability page but shoot it anyway, which I love by the way) will always lead a healthy contingent of people to question why that's the case, and assuming that it's always just a matter of not liking the way IR is portrayed is simply not born out by the testimonials we see from industry insiders (Lisa Ann, Micky Mod, even the Kevin Moore post you referenced at the beginning of this thread). From a purely personal perspective I think that criticism from many performers sounds really hollow if you take into account some of the titles of "regular" boy/girl content that get put out on a regular basis, but that's a different conversation. So yes, it's certainly the primary fault of the industry for incentivizing female performers to put off shooting IR content until they can get a bigger pay day. But, with all of the information available about what's going on in this area I'm not going to feel a boatload of sympathy when a performer vocally says they're not going to shoot IR and then receive the ensuing criticism
I'm saying that if they promote themselves specifically to outlets that cater to a primarily black viewership it will invariably lead to the question of why that performer is refusing to shoot scenes that have black men in them. And that's not an unreasonable question to ask.
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - Jan 12 2016 : 1:40AM
That's a fact. I agree.I strongly agree, except perhaps with you describing your last sentence as a different conversation (we've discussed the point you're making there several times on this thread).That's an uncommon problem. It's rare for a pornstar to flatly state that she won't shoot with black men, and the last pornstar whom I know to have done so recently had an IR gangbang released. Edited by - misspornUSA on 1/12/2016 1:42:01 AM
Leaving out my own personal feelings on the matter, has there been discussion regarding the potential for having waited too long? From I've seen posted by other people it seems that if Alexis Texas were to put out an IR showcase tomorrow it would be a general feeling "too little too late". I'm wondering if there's something to be said for having dragged ones feet for so long on the matter that they've built up too much bad will. Part of me thinks no, only because I'm guessing the average fan wouldn't deprive themselves of material based on some kind of principled stand.
^ Honestly, I get the impression that most fans don't care, and only the "hardest of the hardcore" would actually hold a grudge to the point of actually putting their money (or not putting their money, as it were) where their mouth is. In the hypothetical situation of Alexis Texas shooting an IR showcase, I have no doubt that it would fly off the shelves (well, as much as any DVD flies off the shelves nowadays). Nikki Benz has/had been around for a similar amount of time, if not a little longer, before doing her IR showcase, and from everything I've seen that sold pretty well. Edited by - whatsatelephonebill on 1/12/2016 1:54:34 AM
I guess it depends where you grow up and where you like to work, girls like Sara Jay, Lisa Ann, and Jada Stevens frequent cities like New York and Atlanta. Most of the known dodgers seem to originate in the deep south which would make sense for why they are scared of losing their top clientele for feature dancing and escorting. 5 girls I know for sure either grew up or lives in Texas are Alexis Texas, Rachel Roxxx, Rachel Starr, Jynx Maze, and Nicole Aniston. Granted not every girl from "SEC Football" country is like that, such as Julie Cash and Veroncia Avluv, but the propensity for those types to arrive in the industry are much greater than the rest of the country.
Yet they have their main source of income with extra opportunities if they just went color blind. Oh got to shoot a 5 man gangbang with crusty looking white and latin dudes but dont ever ask me to do something repulsive like shooting a vaginal scene with a black guy; my Klan member clients wont like that and I'll instantly go broke and my life will be ruined forever. FOH
trust me, it would. She knows what she's doing whether she plans to shoot one or not. She knows what her body attracts and how that audience diametrically opposes her core fan base(extremist conservatives). I think the one thing also keeping her ship sailing strong is that she rarely shoots anything but vanilla B/G so she really hasnt been tapped into for much of anything. Has she shot an anal scene that wasn't with her at-the-time-present boyfriend? I guess another factor we also overlook is the prices these girls want which could also tie into it. Girls use high rates either because they know the demand they are in or to have an excuse when prompted about not shooting. They can just say: "when I get the right offer blah blah".
Thank you! This is so on point. I didn't wait for a bigger pay day but was told to wait because they wanted to do something special and I'm so glad I did so I could be a part of this movie! It topped the charts for four weeks and is the first interracial release to be nominated outside of that specific category which, to me, is more exciting than any awards it could win because it shows a change - slow as it may be - in the industry and society.
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DiamondJackman Deactivated User
Straight From My Brown Balls, Using Good Pussy 501 Posts 10/15
Posted - Jan 18 2016 : 3:36PM
MOD: Don't be an asshole. Edited by - flash on 1/18/2016 5:36:21 PM
Oh boy, cue the brouhaha https://twitter.com/AnaFoxxx/status/698006247073669120 So the industry is racist because white women can make extra money by doing a first time IR. Now it's racist if an agency lowers the rate for IR to be their lowest rate.
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DiamondJackman Deactivated User
Straight From My Brown Balls, Using Good Pussy 501 Posts 10/15
Posted - Feb 14 2016 : 9:53AM
^Absolutely! Black people come off worst everytime.
^ yes, but this rises another question , who decided for the discount? The stars in an assembly? Their Agent alone? and if agencies are actually those who rate their girls, then wouldn't it be unfair to blame them for their rates for IR? Do they have a real choice? Edited by - LCF on 2/14/2016 11:25:55 AM
^ I'm not saying it's a bad decision in itself, I'm saying they just gave proof about who really decides rates and scenes the stars do with the girls getting all the shit about it.Very few of them can really fight with their own agent Edited by - LCF on 2/14/2016 2:00:37 PM
Well they are not an agency, they are a talent management firm the girls don't pay commission and he is paid by the studio. He only has 10 girls listed and only 4 of them have IR listed. Two of the girls I am not sure really shoot as I have not seen them in anything and could not find anything other than twitter pages search the internet the others are Goldie Rush and Mandy Muse. I actually read some of the tweets from the person who runs the company and apparently the discount was all of $100 dollars. https://twitter.com/FredXXX2/status/698216951416377344 Admittedly I don't know the going rates in the industry but from what I have seen a standard bg scene pays around $1,000 so this lower rate is still higher than that. As for it leading to more scenes well again according to the owner his rates got 6 "brothers" employed. https://twitter.com/FredXXX2/status/698210716990328833 And as for why there are those that are a bit ticked off, I don't think that people have a problem with it because they are lowering the IR rate that is what most want for IR to be treated for what it is a regular bg scene the problem is the company is using Black History Month as some kind of marketing tool kinda of further trivializing it. It kind of comes off as the agency is saying we honoring black history by offering to lower the rates we are paid to work with black performers. There are already lots of people not all but lots out there that don't take black history month seriously believing that the whole of black history is basically slavery, civil rights, and Barack Obama.
^ I agree with this. The annoying/offensive part isn't necessarily lowering the rates, it's doing so and saying it's "in honor of black history month", which trivializes the entire thing. And if you can afford to keep their rate that low for an entire month, how about you just have it be that low period?
^ But isn't it more than any other agencies are doing? Even if it's not much, it's still more than nothing, which is what seems to reinforce the industry standard of IR costing more. Should everyone involved in porn simply never associate anything they do with BHM? For that matter, should everyone involved in porn make sure to never associate with, acknowledge, or make mention anything generally deemed "important" by society? Mercedes Carrera has recently been very public about proudly escorting a military veteran to the AVN awards. Is this bringing shame to all veterans? By your reasoning is it not trivializing the wages of war? It becomes a slippery slope of sanctimony. Is it crass? Sure. If you look at it cynically. Based on some other tweets by that Fred guy, he seems like an agitator. A provocateur. However, crassness is par for the course in porn. How about when Dogfart was using Wesley Pipes cancer to promote their brand? Cancer is serious. What business does a crass porn company like Dogfart have in exploiting this? Again, this is based on looking at it cynically. It's a slippery slope of sanctimony, which sometimes hazards projecting ill intentions and maligning where it is not. You could cynically look at all of those issues where porn overlaps serious matters. Or you could just recognize the plain fact that porn is typically crass and provocative. That's how it functions. That's the common language. Even though I don't care much for Dogfart, I actually do believe that the people working there do care about Wesley Pipes well being. I don't so easily believe in monsters and bogeymen. I believe Mercedes Carrera genuinely feels respect and love for the veterans she supports. I believe Billy Watson and the crew at Dogfart care about Wesley Pipes. I am not nearly as familiar with this Fred guy or his operation to vouch for him. Still, where the rubber meets the road, the bottom line is unlike most companies or major players in porn, he has at least acknowledged BHM. Most brands aren't going to do shit for it. And I'm not naive. Evidently it looks like his flattening the rate hasn't cost him much. So it's more of a shrewd and perhaps intentionally provocative PR stunt to make that announcement. I have no doubt it was all coldly calculated as to what it would cost. But if 8 brothers got extra work this month because of it, so be it. People complain its unfair that IR costs more. OK, well for this month, at least one agency, or firm whatever you wanna call it, has implemented an equal pay scheme regardless of the color of the dick. Again, if all companies were implementing this rate, then isn't that the ideal status that the people who have long been complaining are seeking?
^ How were they exploiting Wesley Pipes' cancer? All the proceeds went to him (or so they say, I am not personally calling them out on anything, just playing devil's advocate here since I am uncertain whether you will take this approach). I don't see how those two instances are comparable. They were attempting to garner sympathy for a worthy cause. I applaud them for it. Also, blkknight1 stated that from what he has seen the standard BG rate is $1,000, not $1,400. If that is indeed true (which I don't know for 100% sure if it is or isn't), that would mean that this Fred fellow (or his agency) is still charging more for IR than for non-IR scenes. In reality, that would indeed be closer to the ideal (at least the ideal that some in this thread believe in), but not quite there. Maybe one day. Maybe not. I don't feel one way or the other on this matter. Funnily, I actually read all of this on twitter after being linked from another website and for all the support he has achieved here, I am not quite sold that he has earned it. Performers are performers, I don't expect them (not that I shouldn't) to come across 100% professional and non-antagonizing at all times of the day on their personal twitters. On the other hand, I feel it would be in a business man who runs a talent management program's best interest to remain a bit more calm under pressure. He folded just a smidgen in the exchange and lashed out a bit unfairly at Amy Faye with a series of accusatory and inflammatory remarks, which unfortunately for him, led to a not so successful confrontation with ATMLA. I have no hatred for this individual whatsoever and perhaps he was just having bad day, but he didn't come off looking his best here and may have burned some bridges with comments regarding 'blackballing' certain performers and being told coldly that he 'was in no position to do so.' I won't divulge on this further out of courtesy, but it wasn't his finest moment.
^ They still used that issue to promote their brand, didn't they? They still slap Dogfart.com on it, didn't they? They titled the DVD Fucking For a Cure! "They were attempting to garner sympathy for a worthy cause. I applaud them for it." But I guess BHM is not a worthy cause? So what's wrong with doing a discount on IR for BHM? How is that worse? People want to talk about mockery. Come on. There's nothing wrong with either of these things. People complain that IR rates are higher. So here's a firm promoting equal rates in honor of BHM. Isn't equality what the outrage brigade rant about? The fact remains it's more than any other agencies or firms have done. So how can someone complain about it? How can someone act like one is so wrong but the other is noble? Fake outrage is fake. People are going after that Fred dude like he's the one who came up with the idea of charging more for white females to do IR. It's not his fault. Edited by - Melvyn on 2/15/2016 8:03:57 PM
^ Of course they did those things. That would give the movie more legs and make it sell much better since they are a recognizable brand. That's a help, not a hindrance. So all proceeds of the money that was made off of the discount went to a black charity? Because that would be the only way those two instances would be somewhat comparable. I'm not saying it's better or worse, just different. I'm sure you could ask Wesley himself if he feels mocked by Dogfart's kind gesture or not. Now obviously those that are upset over the whole BHM debacle don't speak for all black people everywhere, but clearly some feel negatively about the whole ordeal - do they not? I never said there was anything wrong with it, I'm just arguing that your comparison with Dogfart's Wesley Pipes DVD is not the same thing. Did you not read what blkknight1 stated earlier in this thread? They gave a slight $100 discount, the rate is still possibly $400 more (40%) than what a typical non-IR BG is worth. How do you know it's more than any other agency or firms have done? Are you aware that there are producers that will not pay more for IR's as well as performers that won't charge more? Again, people are not outraged by the fact that they are offering a discount. People are upset because of it's relation with BHM. While I may not personally share their anger over this, I certainly can see where they are coming from. I couldn't tell you whether or not the outrage is real or not, but it does seem legit when I see stars like Jenna Ivory or Katrina Jade making several tweets in a row about it. I would mention Ana Foxx or another African American performer, but that would be met with animosity from her own race apparently. For the last time, the reason they are attacking this Fred fellow is not because of the discount, but because of it having a connection to BHM. It's really not hard to grasp. Take a step away and look at things from outside yourself for a moment here. I don't want to attack your character (and wouldn't dream of it), but you have to put yourself in others' shoes and look at things from different angles sometimes. Human emotions are a complex thing, but looking through different perspectives is one of the best ways to truly feel where others are coming from. Think about it.
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Zy28 Deactivated User
251 Posts 2/12
Posted - Feb 18 2016 : 2:31AM
Actually it's offensive either way. In the former case, doing a scene with someone who is Black doesn't require extra pay like it's an extreme act such as anal or dp. And in the latter situation if "lowest" rate meant below standard b/g rates then that would also be offensive. Or if it meant "standard" b/g rates for February only then higher rates for the rest of the year. Particularly with the snark about Black History Month. Which is why Ana posted about it. The easiest thing would be to end the IR category and treat such scenes like regular b/g scenes with standard b/g pay. But given the racial problems in the industry that may take quite some time.
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DiamondJackman Deactivated User
Straight From My Brown Balls, Using Good Pussy 501 Posts 10/15
^ and ^^ 1. It sounds like you're saying damned if they do, damned if they don't. Can't win with perpetual victimhood mentality. 2. What "snark"? This is where you twist it. There is nothing snarky about that message. It's as plain and neutral and concise as possible to convey the pertinent info. Based on your own bias and contempt, you're reading insults into it which aren't there. That is called projection. 3. We're back to my original point. What you're saying is porn has no business even acknowledging BHM. If that's your position, then just say that. It sounds like the outraged have an inherently disrespectful view of porn, and as such, associating porn with anything "good" must be a deliberate attempt to tarnish that "good" thing. So by your logic, Dogfart is tarnishing legitimate concerns about cancer sufferers. 4. "The easiest thing" according to you is something which NO ONE so far has managed to do, nor can they, because the market dictates this. People who like IR actually find the category helpful. The outrage folks are the ones projecting hatred into this equation. IR exists as a category primarily because people like IR. Some people actually dislike IR, so for them, it's also helpful in avoiding it. And that's nothing you or the outraged could pin on racist white guys either. There's a huge proportion of Hispanic and Asian guys who despise seeing black dudes appearing in porn. Watch how mad they get when they see "their women" eyeing a black man. Shit ain't a joke. It's serious as a heart attack. 5. So again, the IR category, while technically cumbersome, serves multiple purposes. In no way does it exist out of some arbitrary racist or hateful practice being implemented from the top down. It comes from the free market. It comes from the demand of consumers. 6. Why do you think all the major adult DVD vendors have IR categories for their product? Is it because you suspect they hate this stuff and want to put a label on it, the way that Nazis stuck stars on Jews? When you take a moment to reflect on why a thing exists, and who is benefiting from it, (black males, porn producers, DVD vendors, white women, millions of consumers, etc), the call for outrage quickly vanishes. It's become preposterous by now. 7. There is nothing "easy" about changing what almost everyone finds useful or helpful or positive. If you think it's that simple, then try telling AdultDVDEmpire or XRentDVD or Gamelink or any other vendor why they should get rid of the category. 8. It's as ridiculous as trying to get rid of the BDSM category on the basis that bondage is offensive and dehumanizing. Next we'll hear from MRA's about how Femdom should be abolished because it abuses men. Neither one of you know what you're talking about. You don't have logical arguments. If you did, I would be very appreciate if you presented them instead of hiding them behind irrational and emotional kneejerk reactions. 9. Do you think that the NBA is racist against Asians, Hispanics, Whites and other non-black athletes? You're in here spewing platitudinous bilge about how things should be, which is totally disrespectful of the overwhelming majority view, including black consumers who favor IR. Would you say the NBA is corrupt and biased because it doesn't represent the world of athletes properly? Shouldn't NBA club owners be forced to draft teams which are more than half comprised of Asian players? More than half the world is Asian. When you convince the NBA to change that, then I think you can worry about categories in porn and basic business practices. You're upset cuz you feel porn should be different. I'm sure there are hundreds of thousands, even millions of male athletes who feel they should have been blessed with better genes so their chances at being a professional athlete are all "equal." Many when they don't make the cut must feel like the representation in pro sports is unfair. Because of their feelings, they think disproportionate representation in sports is not how it "should" be. Do you feel that way? I don't. And apparently the vast majority of people who buy tickets to support these mostly black teams don't care about that either. They just know they want what they want. They want to see the best athletes. They don't want to see some "affirmative asian action" which forces pro sports teams to draft Asian players. They don't want to see "affirmative caucasian action" forcing these teams to put more white players on the roster, even though the vast majority of pro sports fans in America are white males. They don't want to see white guys on rosters just for the sake of diversity or even keeping proportion with the overall population. Even though it's abundantly obvious that there is extra hype for players of underrepresented background, (e.g. Linsanity, Steve Nash 2x MVP) and we know many people do root for players they identify with, the vast majority of sports fans don't care enough about race and representation to protest or act outraged. It's about as close to a meritocracy as things get, even though basic biology and genetics greatly disfavor the majority of the planet. With porn, what gets produced is what people want. If you think this is not how it works, please explain why any producer out there would throw money away? Do you think torching money is a good business practice? Do you believe IR gets extra money because producers hate black guys? What gets so tedious to the point of frustrating is the extra pay for IR actually puts a higher value on porn featuring black dicks. Yet people are trying to say this is racist against blacks? How the fuck is something which is valued more than standard being interpreted as being devalued or diminished or disrespected? You have to explain this how something good is something bad. As far as I could see, the only problem is the black dudes in the biz aren't getting a cut of that first time IR bonus pay that goes to the girl. And yet they are very likely getting paid higher than the average white porn dudes. If they aren't, then they're failing to get what they deserve. I know damn well that Lex and Mandingo aren't only getting as much as typical white dudes in porn. They aren't fools. They know they get paid better. Either that or they need to fire their agents. lol Porn producers aren't racist and hateful, throwing money away for no good reason other than to establish a system that "should not" be, any more than NBA or NFL club owners are racist and hateful of non-African athletes. They just want to give people what they want. Everything isn't some sinister nonsensical system of oppression. Consumers have the power. Trying to indict the industry is to indict the consumers. Jules Jordan is not a racist, or at least we have no reason to believe it, just because he, like all other producers in the biz, recognizes where things are valued. Greg Lansky is not a racist, just because he launched a website which AVN called website of the year, and it discriminates against white guys and black women. TL;DR = things are the way they are because the overwhelming majority of consumers demand it. Edited by - Melvyn on 2/18/2016 7:47:21 PM
Honestly, Ana is mad because there is no practice of paying extra for a black female's first white dick. Well guess what Ana, there's also nobody getting paid extra to fuck an Asian brotha! Matter of fact, seems like there's virtually no market at all for Asian dudes, even though Asian chicks could (e.g. Asa Akira) get a huge following. Same with Hispanic and White dudes, nobody is getting paid EXTRA to do them! Did you ever see a movie in the bestsellers top 10 with the theme of "Chocolate Honeys 1st Asian Dick!"? Of course not. What if a Asian dude wants to be a superstar like Shane Diesel or Lex Steele? Good luck my friend! If you think the only reason such concepts haven't broken into the bestsellers lists is because wicked white bigots like Jules Jordan or Greg Lansky are just so racist against Asian dudes, then you should school them by investing in that AsianDicked.com brand. I'm sure it will be a sensation. Move over Blacked! smh Come on now. These dudes aint stupid. Jules didn't ever have a gun pointed at him forcing him to, instead of shoot his own series Jules the Impaler, he chose to invest in Lex, knowing Lex would cost more. Did this somehow mean Jules is not only racist against whites, but even suffering some self hating complex at his own expense? It wasn't going to be him shooting a movie starring himself banging these babes, although he certainly still could and still does for scenes of some movies. Jules no doubt paid Lex well and same with Mandingo. If he hated black dudes why would he ever help make them rich superstars? He has a right to shoot movies starring only himself if he wants, but by all the evidence, he's an equal opportunity employer. Unless you got a small dick. Nobody seems to care about them. What about that Ana? Do SmallDicksMatter? Isn't that shit unfair? Statistically, 49% of all men are below average. And probably 75% of men are below the porn average. So what about small dick dudes, Ana? Where's the love for them? Why aren't there more famous celebs in Hollywood with acne? Not everyone is blessed with clear skin. Matter of fact many people suffer with problem skin, so why aren't magazines putting them on the covers, without airbrush? Why aren't there more obese people on the cover of Maxim? Why aren't there more skinny, flat-booty females on XXL or King? Where is the love for albinos?! I want a movie starring only blacks females with pale redhead dudes. Call it Ebony Chicks on Ginger Dicks! Can we get that one please? If we can't I suspect it's some discriminating rooted in bigotry. Fire the president. We can go all year with this. Edited by - Melvyn on 2/18/2016 8:14:46 PM
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - Feb 18 2016 : 8:21PM
^You are too much.
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Rosco Fuji Deactivated User
On the licking stick, Mr. Magic Dick! 3309 Posts 2/09
Posted - Feb 20 2016 : 1:32AM
^^You do realize that 99.9% of the people here just look at the length of your post and just scroll right past it don't you? When I hear people complaining about racism in porn I immediately think back to a Dark Bros scene from the mid 80's where they had a bunch of guys in KKK hoods and robes doing a black chick named Sahara IIRC. If she wasn't complaining about doing that type of scene, I don't see why a bunch of white guys should complain about the amount of $ a white girl should or shouldn't get by doing a black guy.
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - Feb 20 2016 : 2:13AM
^^^Unless you're saying that those guys were really Klansmen, I don't see what the connection is. A porn scene is a porn scene. $$$ is real life.
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Rosco Fuji Deactivated User
On the licking stick, Mr. Magic Dick! 3309 Posts 2/09
Posted - Feb 20 2016 : 11:47AM
Because on this board for the most part and not in literally every exact case so no need to split hairs, the black guys will make it known at the top of the conversation that they are black. Plus, and I'm generalizing here a bit, but except for a few cases, white people complain about non inclusion of blacks more than blacks do themselves. Mainstream example, 3-4 black actors complaining about lack of Oscar noms vs 20 white actors.
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Mass Facialties Deactivated User
"Facialized Vol. 7" 2021 AVN Awards Winner: Best Oral Movie 9308 Posts 9/13
Posted - Feb 20 2016 : 12:22PM
^ LOL...ADT's "master of sarcasm" does have a point there.
^ No, he really doesn't. He assumes that anyone that doesn't make mention of their race is white, because he assumes that most black people posting make it a point to let everyone know they're black. So if they don't do so, he just assumes they aren't. Which is, well, pretty bad logic. And, more importantly, he assumes that everyone posting in this thread is either black or white. There's more than 2 races out there.
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Rosco Fuji Deactivated User
On the licking stick, Mr. Magic Dick! 3309 Posts 2/09
Posted - Feb 20 2016 : 7:32PM
yes, you're right there are more than 2 races, and yes an Asian chick and a white guy are technically interracial, but, for the porn world and life in general, interracial is limited to black and white. Feel better now?
It should help if you read my previous screed in the voice of Charlemagne 'da gawd' and I hope you realize most of it was sarcastic.
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Zy28 Deactivated User
251 Posts 2/12
Posted - Feb 28 2016 : 8:03PM
Not at all, just give up the racism on scene rates. Same b/g rates for every month that all other races get. It's not that complicated.The Black History Month snark. The agent who posted that garbage thought it was something funny to do in "honor" of BHM.No one has managed to do it because no one has chosen to do it yet. And the "market" isn't some nebulous force without intelligence, it's composed of people making conscious choices. Some economists make the same mistake of assuming thoughtlessness with the market and their economic forecasts fail because of it. As for why the IR category exists in the USA and not in other countries. That's easy enough to answer: White male anger at even the idea of BM/WF sexual relations warped and made controversial such pairings since at least the 1600's when anti-miscegenation laws were first written. In fact the first one was put in force in 1664 I believe. So that demonstrates the depth of hatred white men have for such pairings. And to this day it's still hated which is why the IR category exists. And such pairings are put in their own category so they can be avoided or watched by interested parties. In fact even a star like Will Smith had to avoid having a white female co-star in Hitch because of such controversy and instead producers went with Eva Mendes. So yes it does exist out of a racist and hateful practice. And yes they wish to put a label on it so many whites can avoid it.Yes it is quite easy to drop the IR category, but they simply refuse to change the way such movies are produced and marketed out of habit. And that's interesting because the NBA is one of the purest meritocracies there is. Even racists can't get in the way of Blacks excelling at it. You can either play basketball or not. As for non-Blacks though, they certainly would like to see whites and others play in the NBA to represent them but those groups don't focus on Basketball growing up the way Blacks do so the league isn't filled with them. And the comments many white males make about Black athletes, on social media on a regular basis, in the NBA and NFL demonstrate tremendous racism, but they can't change the demographics of either sport without ruining them so they make their peace with the situation.I'm pretty sure you're either feigning ignorance or are being sarcastic because you can't be this unaware of the situation. The money is going to white talent as a bribe to get them to work with Black talent. Black talent isn't getting extra pay. So obviously it is racist. Seems clear. And from the full spectrum of porn there are quite a few racist and hateful porn producers wasting money on pointless films and scenes. To think they only care about money is to misunderstand the nature of the business they're in. Moreover if it was only money they cared about, there are quite a few things they'd do differently. And men get paid less than women in porn. That's pretty well known. As for differences in pay within genders who knows. I do know though that Black women are in many cases paid less than their non-Black counterparts. As for the "bonus" pay that's already been determined to be a racial bribe and is obviously a racist practice that needs to cease.You don't know why Ana is upset, but pretending that the offensive nature of the Black History Month snark and "Low IR rates" comment wasn't one of the reasons is feigning ignorance. Also Jules can shoot what he wants but he knows him being the feature won't sell as well. The controversy angle of Black and white talent sells better. And no one said he hated Blacks but his paying white women bribe money to work with Black talent is unseemly and fundamentally racist. And I believe Nikki Benz publicly said she didn't ask for a higher rate for her scenes with Lex et al and that's the right choice. Others should use that as a road map going forward, including directors.
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - Feb 28 2016 : 11:52PM
Is it easy to risk losing money for the sake of political correctness? Just today I watched a panel discussion on YouTube titled "DEBATE: Consent in Porn: Debunking Myths & Managing Realities." During this panel, BDSM director Dee Severe said explicitly "I hate the whole idea of IR" but added that she has to categorize content as "IR" in order to reach consumers who are looking for IR content. Angela White is also against the IR categorization, but she markets her IR firsts as IR firsts anyway, likely for the same reason. This isn't a question of habit, but of what makes business sense.
^ Yeah, keywords are the name of the game in porn nowadays. In a world where most of your traffic comes from search engines (and a non-zero amount of it from tube sites), you have to market/tag your content with the words/phrases people are using to search for it. Interracial exists as a category if for no other reason than to have an easy way to search for WF(or LF or AF)/BM content. Hell, I would even go so far as to say that one of the reasons that Mason created DarkX is because even though she's been producing great interracial content for some time now, because it was on a site that wasn't focused on it, people that were fans of IR weren't really seeing it, because they focus so much on IR that they don't pay attention to the sites that don't shoot it constantly.
